Adultery: “The act of sexual intercourse when it involves someone who is married and a person that they are not married to.” (Source: The Cobuild English Dictionary)
When a marriage is adulterated (i.e. poor in quality, weak) is adultery necessary or reproachable still?
I know, I know…it is a dreadful theme to start the year with; however I thought that since I would have to address the issue someday, I might as well do it now…
A marriage is more than a legal contract between two people: it is an agreement of sentiments, commitment, compromise, companionship, loyalty, fidelity, and codes.
If a couple is having what is considered, by most, a good marriage and suddenly one of the spouses has a secret affair, then not only the flesh is being swapped but also (and specially) the sentiment, intimacy, bond (and all the other elements described above) are being utterly betrayed.
I wonder if people realise that when making love to their spouses a field of intimacy is activated: the combination of body fluids and climax sounds; the exchange of words of love and coital codes; the sharing of a few seconds of apotheosized pleasure; kisses, caresses, eye contact…all leading to the depths of each other’s soul…
It may seem hard to accept, or even understand, but there are couples that inexplicably deactivate their field of intimacy…this is adultery.
Then we have couples whose marriage has become adulterated (we can even say: sour), and for their own reasons don’t get a divorce, decide to make an agreement between themselves: they will see other people, as long as they are discreet (in order not to smear the family’s image).
In this case there is no betrayal to speak of. And since they both know what the other is doing, the elements of the marriage remain intact:
When a marriage is adulterated (i.e. poor in quality, weak) is adultery necessary or reproachable still?
I know, I know…it is a dreadful theme to start the year with; however I thought that since I would have to address the issue someday, I might as well do it now…
A marriage is more than a legal contract between two people: it is an agreement of sentiments, commitment, compromise, companionship, loyalty, fidelity, and codes.
If a couple is having what is considered, by most, a good marriage and suddenly one of the spouses has a secret affair, then not only the flesh is being swapped but also (and specially) the sentiment, intimacy, bond (and all the other elements described above) are being utterly betrayed.
I wonder if people realise that when making love to their spouses a field of intimacy is activated: the combination of body fluids and climax sounds; the exchange of words of love and coital codes; the sharing of a few seconds of apotheosized pleasure; kisses, caresses, eye contact…all leading to the depths of each other’s soul…
It may seem hard to accept, or even understand, but there are couples that inexplicably deactivate their field of intimacy…this is adultery.
Then we have couples whose marriage has become adulterated (we can even say: sour), and for their own reasons don’t get a divorce, decide to make an agreement between themselves: they will see other people, as long as they are discreet (in order not to smear the family’s image).
In this case there is no betrayal to speak of. And since they both know what the other is doing, the elements of the marriage remain intact:
- Sentiments: the couple share their feelings and design a plan upon them.
- Commitment: the couple is committed in saving the integrity of the family.
- Compromise: the couple realises that for them to be happy together, they need to “go” separate ways.
- Loyalty: the couple remains loyal to the first thing that brought them together - pheromones.
- Fidelity: the couple remains firm in their friendship for each other.
- Codes: they have designed new ones.
- Intimacy: re-designed.
- Bond: tighter for the sake of the family.
In my opinion there is no adultery here, only an adulterated marriage concept.
The Scriptures say, “You shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14).
But if a spouse sees its marital rights denied, is adultery necessary or reproachable still?
Hmmmm...I think that no matter what, even though both parties know that the other is seeing somebody else, it's still considered a breach of marriage. After all, if you're married, ideally speaking, you're supposed to do whatever you can to make sure that the marriage is going strong. Isn't that why they got married in the first place?
ReplyDeletePlus the commitment in a marriage is supposed to be between the two people to stay loyal to each other.
Interesting topic indeed...I'll add more when I think of something he he...
Hello Amelia!!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your opinion on this issue (which is a very difficult one); I appreciate it *bow*!
"Hmmmm...I think that no matter what, even though both parties know that the other is seeing somebody else, it's still considered a breach of marriage." - but if the marriage lacks sentiment, and still the two remain married...do you believe that neither of them should ever have their sexual needs met again?
"After all, if you're married, ideally speaking, you're supposed to do whatever you can to make sure that the marriage is going strong." - I agree, once you get married you have the obligation to do whatever you can to keep the marriage strong; however what should one do when everything has been done, and still the marriage doesn't work? Should one become a nun/priest (Catholic concept, obviously) within marriage?
"Isn't that why they got married in the first place?" - there are many reasons why people get married; but ideally (as you said) people get married for love, companionship and all the other elements I spoke of in the article.
"Plus the commitment in a marriage is supposed to be between the two people to stay loyal to each other." - but there are several types of loyalty. One can be loyal and be unfaithful; and be faithful and be disloyal...
Thank you so much for your input, girl :D!
Cheers
I think it's a deal killer.
ReplyDelete~Oswegan
Hi Max, boy you got lot of intimacy going on here, lol. I hate to tell you, but I am not good if comes to topics like that. I told my brother, that if he takes Sex and Marriage course in school, I cannot help him - gear design - yes, lol. However, girl you nailed some really good facts, and I think one day I may open up. Myself, I really belief that marriage is unity of love and family, and there got to be both - at least for me. I always want to have the sense of feeling as we first met and have the same sense of feeling as we get older, and then die - that is to be in love all life. You can still see I live in a dream, but how can you not - its not like the love can be bought in the store. Family is also very important for me, and may be I will be living another dream as we expand one day. If comes to adultery, I just don't want to think about it, I think it would take my dreams away from me forever.
ReplyDeleteSo Max, since you will be getting married soon, you ask your readers and I think you ask yourself many questions too (I could be wrong), but what I see that you take marriage very seriously, and you need to know. BTW when is the big day?
Also thanks for the Xmas wishes. You are just in time, I don't expect everyone to remember, as I tried to celebrate the first one too with everyone else. Since everyone needs to go to work, we don't make huge event, it is more of getting with immediate family and attending more church. Which is nice, just like meditation, and time to reflect, and time to bring good memories more on the individual bases. Thanks again for your wishes Max, and excellent topic as always. Anna :) Say Hi to your Mom!
Max,
ReplyDeleteLet's dig in.
"When a marriage is adulterated (i.e. poor in quality, weak) is adultery necessary or reproachable still?"
Absolutely not! There is no feasible excuse for adultery. We hear all the time that man is not monogamous, that he/we should have as many partners as possible, but if that were the case then no marriages would ever work. Some people compare man to the animal kingdom, but we cannot compare civilized human beings to the animal kingdom; i.e. the lion who mates up to 50 times a day or the bonobo who has sex all day.
Only 3-5 % of the mammals are known to form lifelong pair bonds, like beavers, otters, jackals, foxes, some bats and a few dwarf deer and antelopes.
Strict monogamy is almost nonexistent in the animal kingdom, as creatures that do pair for life, occasionally have flings on the side. Go figure.
A male prairie vole will prefer to mate exclusively with the first female in which he loses his virginity. A mated male vole will actually attack other females who approach him.
Back to people. I think a real marriage is a comprised of two Souls who have set out to sea and they have to learn to sink or swim. They learn to swim with or against the tide and in doing that they learn to rely on each other to keep them afloat. That's when the life preserver of love comes in. Love keeps them above water and together they sail through.
"I wonder if people realise that when making love to their spouses a field of intimacy is activated: the combination of body fluids and climax sounds; the exchange of words of love and coital codes; the sharing of a few seconds of apotheosized pleasure; kisses, caresses, eye contact…all leading to the depths of each other’s soul."
That's real poetry in motion. The movement and the rhythm of body...mind...spirit...the shift in consciousness and the strengthening of that inner connection.
"It may seem hard to accept, or even understand, but there are couples that inexplicably deactivate their field of intimacy…this is adultery."
Very well articulated. Intimacy is an activation of energy fields and a sensitivity to one's spouse/partner. To disrespect that bond is to deactivate one's intimacy.
"Then we have couples whose marriage has become adulterated (we can even say: sour), and for their own reasons don’t get a divorce, decide to make an agreement between themselves: they will see other people, as long as they are discreet (in order not to smear the family’s image)."
I know this happens a lot in Hollywood with power couples and even the British royal family. People would rather keep up appearances rather than have the love of the spouse, which is really sad and a degradation of their spiritual worth. They trade love for position, but money can't buy love or class.
This an exceptional post, as always. Well done!
I'm going to respond before I read the other comments because I don't want to lose my train of thought.
ReplyDeleteHere is a couple who are having problems in their marriage. You might liken their problems to a physical wound. It hurts, so they want to try to make it better. But by breaking the emotional bonds with each other, and trying to build those same bonds with someone else, they are just adding salt to the wound. Not only does it not help their marriage become better, it makes their relationship even worse.
Even though they both agree, it is still a betrayal of fidelity. It still breaks the bond of fidelity that was formed at marriage. The word fidelity does not mean "friendship". It means being true to. When a person "cleaves" to someone they are not married to, they are not showing fidelity.
Friendship does not alone equal marriage. Marriage is more than just two people living as friends in the same house.
I disagree that the bond is tighter. In fact, the family will be more in jeopardy because the parents are not totally united.
I say, take all of the effort that they would spend to have an affair and put that effort in to rebuilding the marriage.
Is it adultery? I say, if it walks like a dog, and it barks like a dog..it must be a dog. One could try to rationalize, but if a person is having a physical relationship outside of marriage, it is adultery.
If nothing else, marriage is a sacred "Trust." If there is no trust there is no marriage.
ReplyDeleteIf adultery is necessary or needed, then the marriage should end.
If the issues cannot be worked out, then the marriage should end.
Trust can be lost and also be won back. I do not condemn a person for a single weakness, after all we are all human. But, twice and it is over.
The overlying issue, in my view, is TRUST.
Hello Scott,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your input :D! Indeed, it can be "a deal killer" (depending on what sort of marriage one has...)!
Cheers
Hello Anna!
ReplyDelete"boy you got lot of intimacy going on here, lol. " - LOL I hope I didn't shock you...I tend to do that sometimes (shock people)!
"I hate to tell you, but I am not good if comes to topics like that. I told my brother, that if he takes Sex and Marriage course in school, I cannot help him - gear design - yes, lol." - LOL that was a good one *nodding*. Gear design must be incredibly interesting :). It is quite all right, Anna...I know it is heavy material :).
I know what you mean: when a person is totally in love with her spouse, and lives a dreamy life (in terms of intimacy and loyalty) one tends to do whatever she can to keep it, and not think about things that can ruin the dream. I would dare saying that you and your husband are a match made in Heaven, and that you need not to worry cause when a match is made by God adultery is not necessary, not even crosses the mind of the couple :D!
Family is extremely important, and if you ask me: it is sacred!
"So Max, since you will be getting married soon, you ask your readers and I think you ask yourself many questions too (I could be wrong), but what I see that you take marriage very seriously, and you need to know. BTW when is the big day?" - darling, I take marriage extremely seriously. I wouldn't get married if I weren't absolutely sure about the man I will get married to :). These questions have nothing to do with me though; they are fruit of things that I observe in life and I just wished to bring it to the arena: you know that is what MAX is all about LOL :). Max will marry in August :)...
You are welcome :)! Uuff, I thought to myself "Max, I can't believe you!! You forgot about the Orthodox Christmas" *nodding*...I was quite embarrassed...but I am glad I was in time :).
Time to reflect...that is what people should do more: reflect (that way they wouldn't do so many silly things in this world *nodding*).
Don't mention it, girl :)! Thanks, I will tell her you said Hi (She'll like it) :D!
Thanks for your comment: it was swell :)!
Cheers
Hey Max, thanks for your comment back and answers as always.
ReplyDeleteYou said: 'It is quite all right, Anna...I know it is heavy material :).' - yes in deed it is heavy material, lol, thanks for understanding.
You said: 'I would dare saying that you and your husband are a match made in Heaven, and that you need not to worry cause when a match is made by God adultery is not necessary, not even crosses the mind of the couple :D!
Family is extremely important, and if you ask me: it is sacred! - hey sometimes I do worry, you know there is always that fear as we get older (especially for us women), but then comes trust. Yes family is sacred, I agree with you.
That is good that marriage is extremely serious thing for you, because there are many just say 'lets get married', and then they find out that they are not compatible and ruin everything, however, sometimes believe or not spontaneous marriages work, just like winning a lottery, it lasts forever. So Max I guess you getting married is not related to the posts, well then you are really good observer. I observe too sometimes, and sometimes I ask hubby what if, but he just so determined, lol, so on the end lets just live a dream and not worry about that stuff. Yes you are real MAX, and you definitely know who you are and what you want in life, go girl go. August, I will them mark my calendar, beautiful month. Mine was June - 10 years ago.
Thanks for the wishes again Max. Aside I will have to make small correction. I am actually Ukrainian Catholic that follow the Gregorian Calendar Jan 7 (same as orthodox), Roman Catholics follow the Julian calendar (Dec 24). So what is the difference - Catholics follow pope, and orthodox do not. So to make it simple Ukr Catholics and Orthodox share the same calendar and architecture (icons, wooden churches, etc), and Ukr Catholics and Roman Catholics share the same pope. Sometimes Ukr Catholics are also called Greek Catholics. Hope you don't mind this small lesson.
Better run again, and do some work (at work lol). Take care, Anna :)
Hello D!
ReplyDelete"I'm going to respond before I read the other comments because I don't want to lose my train of thought." - LOL you do well :). Let's see what you offered us....
"You might liken their problems to a physical wound. It hurts, so they want to try to make it better. But by breaking the emotional bonds with each other, and trying to build those same bonds with someone else, they are just adding salt to the wound." - this wound example is not very strong, cause I could tell you that if the couple would use warm salty water, it would sting (yes, and hurt a bit) but in the end it would cure the wound (meaning they have troubles in their marriage - the wound - but then decide that they work better as friends, and for some reason unknown to us they can't divorce -it hurts to realise that you have made the wrong choice, and now you have no way out...warm salty water stinging - but work out a solution and things; although not perfect in the eyes of those who disagree with it; seem to work for them and they remain in harmony - warm salty water curing the wound...perhaps leaving a scar, but cured). I agree that breaking emotional bonds is a terrible thing to do, just terrible...but what happens when there is no emotional bond to break?
"Not only does it not help their marriage become better, it makes their relationship even worse." - it depends on the point of view (what brought the couple together in the first place; are there any feelings or not; what situation led them to take extreme measures etc).
"Even though they both agree, it is still a betrayal of fidelity. It still breaks the bond of fidelity that was formed at marriage. The word fidelity does not mean "friendship". It means being true to." - It is not a betrayal of fidelity if they have agreed that fidelity between themselves would cease. You can't betray something that doesn't exist. You are right "fidelity means being true" however if their truth is that there won't be fidelity towards each other, they remain faithful to their agreement.
"Friendship does not alone equal marriage. Marriage is more than just two people living as friends in the same house." - this is utterly true; however one must see that there are these types of marriages, they exist; and they won't stop existing just because one doesn't agree with its concept. People get married, then find out they are more friends then spouses, they don't have sex with each other for years; they don't want to divorce, and agree to see other people. Do we have the right to judge these couples?
"I disagree that the bond is tighter. In fact, the family will be more in jeopardy because the parents are not totally united." - the parents are united in their agreement, and in their goal of maintaining the family together. Picture the following scenario: a man is an homosexual, he gets married to camouflage his homosexuality, he and his wife have kids. His wife finds out that he is gay and confronts him with it; the kids are small and they don't want to divorce for their sake. They cease to share the same bed, they remain friends for their kids' sake...years go by, kids get married, they remain together (for their own reasons)...they die. Their kids find out they had separate lives while together...was this couple committing adultery? Was it wrong?
"I say, take all of the effort that they would spend to have an affair and put that effort in to rebuilding the marriage." - sometimes it just isn't possible.
"Is it adultery? I say, if it walks like a dog, and it barks like a dog..it must be a dog. One could try to rationalize, but if a person is having a physical relationship outside of marriage, it is adultery." - Thank you so much for your input, Delirious :)! It was a good comment!!
Cheers
Hello Mel,
ReplyDelete"If nothing else, marriage is a sacred "Trust." If there is no trust there is no marriage." - I agree with you :).
"If adultery is necessary or needed, then the marriage should end." - True too. However there are religions that are against divorce, and people actually abide to it (while committing adultery which is also a sin, according to most religions...what a paradox). But what if they can't divorce, Mel? Should they live a sexless life?
"If the issues cannot be worked out, then the marriage should end." - sometimes it is not that linear...
"Trust can be lost and also be won back. I do not condemn a person for a single weakness, after all we are all human. But, twice and it is over." - *clap clap clap* I loved this :)! So, what if a man/woman doesn't sleep with his/her spouse and then has one lover all his/her life? Is this more admissable?
"The overlying issue, in my view, is TRUST." - :D
Mel, great comment!!! Thank you so much :D!
Cheers
Hey Hey Anna! :D
ReplyDeleteIt is my pleasure; and hey, I should be thanking you for having returned my comment :)!
"yes in deed it is heavy material, lol, thanks for understanding." - lol you are welcome. This is why I wanted to get this issue done with now LOL....
"hey sometimes I do worry, you know there is always that fear as we get older (especially for us women), but then comes trust. Yes family is sacred, I agree with you." - Trust is an important ingredient in relationships, this much I know (that is why I agree with Mel's comment on Trust). Amen :).
Oooh, don't I know that people make the wrong choices *nodding*. I have a friend who got married 9 years ago. Before she did I told her that her fiancé looked a bit suspicious, that his energy wasn't good; she didn't listen...she got divorced a year later; can you believe it *nodding*? Now, that is a sin *nodding*! I believe you when you say that sometimes spontaneous marriages work...it is a questions of being a match made by God or not :).
Nooo, my posts are totally independ from my life, don't worry :). I like observing life and all its actors :D.
Your husband knows the real deal, Anna: just live your love, and forget about the rest :)!
"go girl go. August, I will them mark my calendar, beautiful month. Mine was June - 10 years ago." - I am going, I am going LOL LOL :). At least it is warm..cause I dislike winter :(. June? That is such a romantic month :D! 98'...oh, I was so young by then *nostalgic face* lol lol....
Oh, you are not Orthodox, you are Ukrainian Catholic (but also called Greek)...I apologise! I won't repeat the same mistake :). Ahh, ok...now I got the difference, thanks :)! I don't mind at all: I love learning new things!!! :D Thank you so much for the lesson *bowing*!
Thank you for all the kind words, Anna, you are a doll :D!
Yes, run...but I will see you again (I am on my way to your blog)!
Take care, dear :)
Max quick come back, lol.
ReplyDeleteYou said: June? That is such a romantic month :D! 98'...oh, I was so young by then *nostalgic face* lol lol.... - yeahhhhh me too, lol
Oh, you are not Orthodox, you are Ukrainian Catholic (but also called Greek)...I apologise! I won't repeat the same mistake :). Ahh, ok...now I got the difference, thanks :)! I don't mind at all: I love learning new things!!! :D Thank you so much for the lesson' - hey no need to apologise and you are welcome, I though you may want to know, many few years ago I did not know these facts either, lol.
Your husband knows the real deal, Anna: just live your love, and forget about the rest :)! - yes, and he is the more romantic one too, and me sometimes I wonder, lol.
I will see you then, Anna :)
Anna,
ReplyDeleteI just finished replying to all the comments and mails, now I am ready to visit your blog! But before I go, I will quickly reply to this comment:
"yeahhhhh me too, lol" - LOL LOL :).
"hey no need to apologise and you are welcome, I though you may want to know, many few years ago I did not know these facts either, lol." - You didn't? When did you learn them?
"yes, and he is the more romantic one too, and me sometimes I wonder, lol." - ah, it means nothing; he is Italian it is only natural that he is more romantic...trust me, I know...my fiancé is also more romantic than I am :D! It is pure love :D! We are blessed!
Now I am on my way to "My only photo" lol
Cheers
Hi Max,
ReplyDelete"Having sex all day would be a tragedy for us...can you imagine? The body wouldn't take it...*nodding*...plus we gotta other things to do: work, read, nails, brows, hair etc LOL LOL...(a small joke)"
ROFL (Rolling On FLoor Laughing) How did you know? Nails are so important. I used to do them all day with elaborate colors, now I cut them off because it took too long to do every week and it makes typing difficult.
"What if the couple who got married doesn't love each other from the start? What if they married for other reasons (business etc) and can't divorce themselves? Isn't this couple in its full right to seek to keep afloat while making some compromises?"
The romanticism in me says how sad that couples marry who don't love each other, but the realism in me knows it happens quite often. We make emotional contracts with people all the time, marriage is just one of many. And yes, compromise is the key to staying afloat. Just look at the last 7 letters of "com(promise);" it is a promise, a mutual concession, quid pro quo. Even in compromising, they are still proving that they can be committed to keeping afloat for their agreement.
"It is very hard to find this kind of relationship, connection...people are not patient enough when looking for a husband/wife *nodding*."
So true. So very true. Love is worth waiting for, but so often we change horses in the middle of the stream.
"This reminds me of Princesses who got married (by force) to really old Kings and Lords, and then had their young lovers...were they wrong in doing so?"
I can say a hearty, "No!," as someone who lives in the 21st century, they weren't wrong in doing so, but back then, those princesses were taking their lives in their own hands by being so bold. (to acknowledge their feelings with another one other than their husbands. Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn beheaded. (I must say Anne was ahead of the crowd. ;D)
Thanks for keeping my brain stimulated. :D
Max,
ReplyDeleteI understand the restriction of religion. My answer to that is that one must either live in a sexless marriage or change religions. I feel quite absolute about this.
This may be because that I am Jewish and we have a lot more freedoms in regards to divorce.
To me, trust is absolute in a marriage or else you don't have a marriage.
To answer your comment in regards to once versus twice......once is a single act. However, an affair, even though it is multiple acts, can be viewed as a single occurence if both spouses can agree that there is a problem and work towards resolution and the rebuilding of trust.
Again, "trust" being the overriding condition.
You're not married yet, don't worry too much about future sins! :D
ReplyDeleteSorry ;)
I'm not religious but I'm married and I use common sense. I guess some couples are more free than others... everybody has a different view on that. What goes for some people won't go for others... "chacun voit midi à sa porte" ;)
Not hurting each other, being happy and comfortable with feelings... that's what matters to me. Being married is making compromised. It's okay... doesn't mean cheating is!
Hello Alexys,
ReplyDelete"ROFL (Rolling On FLoor Laughing) How did you know? Nails are so important. I used to do them all day with elaborate colors, now I cut them off because it took too long to do every week and it makes typing difficult." - LOL as you said I am a little detective LOL :). Oh my, you were so patient "do them all day with elaborate colors"..wow. I don't have the patience for it, I just put a nail-hardner and I am good to go; plus I don't have them long because it makes typing hard. But you are right: nails are important; they say so much about the person, don't they :)?
"The romanticism in me says how sad that couples marry who don't love each other, but the realism in me knows it happens quite often. We make emotional contracts with people all the time, marriage is just one of many." - it is sad indeed :(. I don't think I could ever marry someone I didn't love...*nodding*.
"And yes, compromise is the key to staying afloat. Just look at the last 7 letters of "com(promise);" it is a promise, a mutual concession, quid pro quo." - this is beautiful, Alexys..."com(promise)" gorgeous! And I agree with you.
"Even in compromising, they are still proving that they can be committed to keeping afloat for their agreement." - oh yeah, cause even though a couple agrees on something as difficult as this, it is yet to be proven the maturity to handle (and cope with) it when words turn into acts...can't be an easy thing to do.
"So true. So very true. Love is worth waiting for, but so often we change horses in the middle of the stream." - indeed. But the worse is when people change horses, mules, camels, and then end up by trying to ride dogs...*nodding*
"I can say a hearty, "No!," as someone who lives in the 21st century, they weren't wrong in doing so, but back then, those princesses were taking their lives in their own hands by being so bold. (to acknowledge their feelings with another one other than their husbands." - they were brave indeed *nodding*. In the 18th century everybody was doing it; but the trick was not to get caught in the act. However that was a good lesson for old men who liked to marry youngsters just to flaunt them as trophies *nodding*.
"Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn beheaded. (I must say Anne was ahead of the crowd. ;D)" - LOL indeed she was ;D.
"Thanks for keeping my brain stimulated. :D" - Don't mention it! Plus I thank you for having this most interesting and entertaining conversation, dear :D!
Cheers
Dear Mel,
ReplyDeleteI'd like to thank for having come back :D!
"I understand the restriction of religion. My answer to that is that one must either live in a sexless marriage or change religions. I feel quite absolute about this." - change religion...that is quite complex, isn't it? But I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your view on this :).
"This may be because that I am Jewish and we have a lot more freedoms in regards to divorce." - Yes, I am quite aware of the freedoms and restrictions of Judaism :). And divorce is one of the things that I find extremely interesting (in Judaism) cause at least people know that if they haven't found the right person they have the freedom to seek for love without having the weight of religion on their shoulders. After all people must find their Bashert (in a sense of soul mates), right?
"To me, trust is absolute in a marriage or else you don't have a marriage." - I agree with you. I even told Anna (one of my guests) that I agreed with you: trust is an extremely important ingredient to marriage.
"To answer your comment in regards to once versus twice......once is a single act. However, an affair, even though it is multiple acts, can be viewed as a single occurence if both spouses can agree that there is a problem and work towards resolution and the rebuilding of trust." - I hear you, and I am taking notes :).
"Again, "trust" being the overriding condition." - trust it is, then :D!
Mel, thank you so much! Your input was extremely important, my friend :)!
Cheers
Zhu,
ReplyDeleteMa chérie, you have brought light with you :D!
"You're not married yet, don't worry too much about future sins! :D" - LOL LOL you know?
"Sorry ;)" - LOL pas de soucis ;)
"I'm not religious but I'm married and I use common sense. I guess some couples are more free than others... everybody has a different view on that. What goes for some people won't go for others... "chacun voit midi à sa porte" ;) " - ouais, je te comprends parfaitement ;). I think that couples have their own codes, and it is not our place to judge nor "se mêler de ses affaires"...if you were religious, I would tell you that it is between the couple and the Creator.
"Not hurting each other, being happy and comfortable with feelings... that's what matters to me. Being married is making compromised. It's okay... doesn't mean cheating is!" - I know what you are trying to say :).
Thank you so much for your input, Zhu :D!
Cheers
Hi Max, back to answer your questions, - "hey no need to apologise and you are welcome, I though you may want to know, many few years ago I did not know these facts either, lol." - You didn't? When did you learn them?
ReplyDeleteIn Europe (I was born in Poland), everyone was Ukr catholic, so the orthodox never came up, but then when they started to call us orthodox here in Canada - someone in the church (probably nun) explained that difference. I guess it takes to be in different environment, to actually trigger some of the answers.
"I know...my fiancé is also more romantic than I am :D! It is pure love :D! We are blessed!" - yes we are.
Max, thanks for commenting back and visiting my blog, now I am off to my blog to follow up the comments - and they cycle continues, lol. Thanks again, Anna :)
Hi Max! I totally agree with alexys, there's no excuse for adultery. Even if you have a weak marriage, to us catholics, just thinking about it makes you a sinner.
ReplyDeleteOff topic, I have a tag for you and it's up at http://mlizcochico.blogspot.com.
Take care and see yah.
Hello Anna,
ReplyDelete"In Europe (I was born in Poland), everyone was Ukr catholic, so the orthodox never came up, but then when they started to call us orthodox here in Canada - someone in the church (probably nun) explained that difference. I guess it takes to be in different environment, to actually trigger some of the answers." - so you are Polish by birth; how wonderful :)! Do you dance Polka? True, cause when you are in your birth country nobody questions anything since there may not be that many different Christian churches, but then you move into a country that has so many different Christian groups (Catholic, Orthodox, Greek, Evangelicals, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses etc)...you eventually learn about the difference lol.
You are welcome, Anna. In fact, thanks for returning my comment :)! Me too, I have to go and do my blogging round lol :D.
I see you!
Cheers
Hello Liza!
ReplyDelete"Even if you have a weak marriage, to us catholics, just thinking about it makes you a sinner." - yes, I am quite aware of the Catholic view on this issues :D.
Oh my...a tag...what is it? Now I am curious ;)! I'll be on my way to your place in a few minutes :)
Thanks for your contribution, Liza! I appreciated it :D!
Cheers
Yes I was born in Poland. No, I don't know any Polka's, but then all folk dances look like polkas, lol. We actually had really strong cultural ukr community, anything to do with dances or performances we did in Ukr community (I didn't to much), the rest was in Polish school. I think recently we have discovered, that I may have 12% of Polish blood in me. Hey I would love to see your baby photos, please give me the link. Thanks, Anna :)
ReplyDeleteI'm scare to death whenever someone talks about marriage!
ReplyDeleteHi Max,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mel that marriage is a sacred trust. My ex committed adultery, the first time we talked through it and seemed to survive and rebuild the trust, but it was short lived...she continued this with three other persons which ended up destroying any form of trust and hence the marriage was over.
I will apologise, I got tagged so I have tagged you too, but it's up to you whether you participate.
Details here: http://grottynosh.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/love-and-hate-meme/
Have a great day,
Colin
Anna,
ReplyDelete"No, I don't know any Polka's, but then all folk dances look like polkas, lol." - LOL LOL I hear you...
Ah ok, I got it now :)! Only 12% of Polish blood? I see...I am not even going to mention the percentage of x or y blood I have cause I am the result of many many mixtures!
Here's the link:
http://maxcouti.blogspot.com/2007/11/proudest-moment-in-my-lifea-tag.html
It is only one photo, I was one month old.
You are most welcome, girl :D!
Cheers
Hello Cidão!!
ReplyDeleteLOL don't be; as you can see I have several married guests here and they all speak wonders of marriage :). I am not saying it is easy and dreamy all the time, but neither is life :)!
I think that one day you will change your mind...I have!
Cheers
Hello Colin!
ReplyDelete"I agree with Mel that marriage is a sacred trust. My ex committed adultery, the first time we talked through it and seemed to survive and rebuild the trust, but it was short lived...she continued this with three other persons which ended up destroying any form of trust and hence the marriage was over." - I am so sorry to hear that, Colin :(. By principle I don't make judgements, so I will refrain from making further comments; however I would like to thank you for sharing this with us :)!
No need to apologise, Colin; thanks for tagging me, and it will be my pleasure to participate :)! I have been at your place and that tag is rather interesting :D!
Thank you for your contribution *bowing*!
Have a great day yourself :D!
Some say that intimacy is merely a chemical lie brought on by the release of oxytocin during intercourse. But it's much more than that. It's a social bond, and I'd like to think that the relationships among humans are more than just empty illusions of trust effected by mere hormones. I think we're more than just mindless, raving animals influenced by chemicals. In romantic relationships, there ought to be a shared conception of love as a bond that transcends all material, chemical dimensions. Love is what makes you smile just thinking about another person, what makes children, what gives good people a spirit to live. Cheers Max!
ReplyDeleteHi, gorgeous!!!
ReplyDeleteHope UR weekend was GREAT!!! ;-D
When you have time later, check out my old pics here and try to spot me HI HI HI...
Old Pics of Me
Max, you said: 'Ah 'I am not even going to mention the percentage of x or y blood I have cause I am the result of many many mixtures!' - so you are unique.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your baby photo link, you were cute baby and now I can say unique. Those cute features on your face are just amazing, and I am sure they stayed with you.
Hopefully when you get married, we get to see some wedding photos.
Anna :)
Max, this is a very good description of adultery. I hadn't thought of it quite this way: "couples that inexplicably deactivate their field of intimacy…"
ReplyDeleteYes, certainly adultery breaks the bonds of trust and intimacy and promise. As well as familial "integrity." And you have said it so well! There you go again, bravely exploring ideas!
whoa!! Lotsa long discussion here... hahaha.. I agree with Amel, we have the same concept, as we used to live in the same town, went to the same school... LOL... and I agree with LS as well...that when we are married, we become one flesh with our spouse.. :-)
ReplyDeleteHello Manimala!
ReplyDelete"Some say that intimacy is merely a chemical lie brought on by the release of oxytocin during intercourse. But it's much more than that." - I agree with you; it is so but so much more than that, my friend :).
"It's a social bond, and I'd like to think that the relationships among humans are more than just empty illusions of trust effected by mere hormones." - I also like to think this; however there are some fellow humans who are mistaken to the point of thinking that hormones are in total control, and serve as justification for their wild (and often, brainless) actions *nodding*.
"In romantic relationships, there ought to be a shared conception of love as a bond that transcends all material, chemical dimensions. Love is what makes you smile just thinking about another person, what makes children, what gives good people a spirit to live." - this is so beautiful! I will not add a single word to what has been said so that I won't ruin this :).
Thank you for your delightful input, Manimala! It is always a pleasure to read your comments :)!
Cheers
Hello Anna,
ReplyDeleteI gather you had a peaceful weekend :)!
"so you are unique." - people say that I am exotic; my mom says I am unique...so I guess you may be right :). Thank you *bowing*!
"Thanks for your baby photo link, you were cute baby and now I can say unique. Those cute features on your face are just amazing, and I am sure they stayed with you." - you are most welcome :). Thank you, darling *bowing*! Indeed, I didn't change much....how did you know?
"Hopefully when you get married, we get to see some wedding photos." - lol we'll see :D!
Thank you so much for your kind words, I think I'm blushing a bit lol....
Cheers
Hello Lynda,
ReplyDelete"this is a very good description of adultery. I hadn't thought of it quite this way: "couples that inexplicably deactivate their field of intimacy…"" - thank you, dear *bowing*! I just thought of describing this derailing action as close to reality as possible, without shocking people :).
"Yes, certainly adultery breaks the bonds of trust and intimacy and promise. As well as familial "integrity." And you have said it so well!There you go again, bravely exploring ideas!" - yes, it does, indeed. Thank you, darling; thank you so much for your kind words!
I would also like to thank you for your input :)!
Cheers
Hello Trinity!
ReplyDeleteLOL yes, MAX is the place for self-expression lol :D!
"I agree with Amel, we have the same concept, as we used to live in the same town, went to the same school... LOL... and I agree with LS as well...that when we are married, we become one flesh with our spouse.. :-)" - thank you so much for your contribution, dear :)!
Cheers
Thanks Max, and since blushing is healthy, you can expect more, lol. Thanks for sharing your childhood, and may be one day I get to see your wedding photos - may be I trade you with mine, lol. Anna :)
ReplyDeleteDear Anna,
ReplyDeleteYou are most welcome *bowing*! LOL LOL Oh, you are planning to make me blush even more...not fair LOL :D! It was my pleasure, dear :D!
Cheers
After reading the responses, it seems everyone has gone into alot of depth and research lol...
ReplyDeleteWhat a wide variety of beliefs it's amazing. Indeed, it is only the educated that can have such wide beliefs...
Personally, I feel quite similar to Amel first post. Get married and stay with each other or divorce. Prolonging something that is false will simply hurt each other more.
Getting married I guess symbolise a special connection between two person. So making an agreement to breach that simply will hurt those original feelings despite the fact that they may have dissipated to the extent that such an agreement was made in the first place.
So over time, both will be hurt so why continue? Prevention is better than cure they say... Prevent what you can.
I contribute infidelity to 70% of the mind and 30% to the environment. 70% because we are less experienced to a variety of situations and experiences and 30% because of our upbringing.
Most insightful post Max!
adultery while you´re married is fine in my mind, but one should ask their spouse to see if it is okay with them!
ReplyDeleteHello Shan,
ReplyDeleteWelcome back :D!
"After reading the responses, it seems everyone has gone into alot of depth and research lol..." - LOL indeed, my friend. This is a serious matter and we all wanted to give the attention and respect it deserves :)
"What a wide variety of beliefs it's amazing. Indeed, it is only the educated that can have such wide beliefs..." - thank you, I think lol :). The MAXzone entertains people from various nations and backgrounds so it is only natural that it results in diverse opinions...
"Personally, I feel quite similar to Amel first post. Get married and stay with each other or divorce. Prolonging something that is false will simply hurt each other more." - all right, I can get that. But what if the couple's religious beliefs doesn't allow them to get a divorce? And what if for some reason they don't get a divorce and one of them is gay? What should the couple do in these cases?
"Getting married I guess symbolise a special connection between two person. So making an agreement to breach that simply will hurt those original feelings despite the fact that they may have dissipated to the extent that such an agreement was made in the first place." - I agree with you when you say that marriage is the symbol of a special connection between two people. But people get married for several reasons (not all of them marry for love); so what kind of original feelings would be hurt?
"Prevention is better than cure they say... Prevent what you can." - lol I loved this sentence; it was very good *bowing*!
"I contribute infidelity to 70% of the mind and 30% to the environment. 70% because we are less experienced to a variety of situations and experiences and 30% because of our upbringing." - I see...interesting...but we have reason, shouldn't it control our impulses? And if a certain situation is observed (such as homosexuality in one of the spouses) should the couple resist those impulses? And is it all right to do so, or is it still betrayal?
"Most insightful post Max! " - thank you, my friend :D!
Thank you so much for your contribution, it was much appreciated :D!
Cheers
Hello VT!
ReplyDelete"adultery while you´re married is fine in my mind, but one should ask their spouse to see if it is okay with them!" - LOL LOL so you agree with the second part of the article? Wow...I respect your being so direct about this issue, my friend *bowing*!
Thank you so much for your input; VT. I loved you straight-forwardness :D!
Cheers