Hookers and Strippers Legal and Moral?




Prostitution...what does this word mean? The oldest profession basically means "engaging in sex acts for hire" or more bluntly "exchanging sex for money".

When we speak of prostitution, we visualise women in utterly tasteless attires, soliciting somewhere in the streets; or we see women clad in designer garbs escorting highly successful business (yet unsuccessful in relationships) men.
However there are other types of harlots:

1. The cocottes who date married men with the single purpose of obtaining presents; clothes, cars, have their household rent paid, etc.
2. The private bawds who legally unite themselves to rich men with the unique goal of satisfying their sexual needs in exchange for jewellery, fur on their backs, a fully loaded car, a phat [1] bank account, a luxurious home to dwell in, designer frocks & shoes etc...

It could be argued that cocottes and private bawds are not prostitutes, but simply women who found an alternative way of life; however since they engage in sexual intercourse in exchange of “assets and property considered in terms of monetary value” (i.e. money) I’d say they are a cheap version of courtesans.

But these are not the only forms of prostitution. Let’s not forget the male prostitutes and gigolos.
The difference between male prostitutes and female ones is that the first are quite well tolerated by society (let’s say that their services are quite useful: they either calm down rich needy women [gigolos], or they fulfil the fantasies of men who haven’t come out of the closet and don’t intend to do so any time soon [male prostitutes]); whereas the second are pointed as if they were the scum of society (despite the convenience & popularity of their provided services). Sexism exists even in the underground world of prostitution.

How is this profession dealt with by European governments? Bad, irresponsible and disrespectfully I’d say. In most European countries, prostitution is legal (except in East Europe, Sweden and Norway), but in a very hypocritical way. For example, they allow a person to sell its body, but it cannot associate itself in a sex-joint venture (i.e. brothel) and it is not obliged to be regularly examined by a doctor.
Governments should legalise prostitution, for it is a question of public health and nations’ GDP.
If governments would legalise prostitution, they would have to circumscribe the sex-traders to places where they can effectively trade (sex-joint ventures; thus taking them off some residential zones [of the wealthy and embassies] – like here in Portugal); they’d have to order these women to be observed by doctors once a week, do monthly check-ups; they’d have to instruct the Immigration Office [to check for illegal labour] and the Police [to check for sex trafficking victims] to proceed with regular inspections; they’d have to enforce sex-traders to pay their taxes and discount for social security (governments speak of money laundry so much, here it is one way to begin its end). Legalising this activity would also help fighting human traffic.
For example, it is said that in France each prostitute earns at least €500/day; if they work 6 days a week (because even sex-traders must rest) they’ll earn €3,000/week, which means that at the end of a fiscal year they will make €144,000. It is estimated to be 20,000 prostitutes in this country, which means that this is a €2,880,000,000 business. Since the French government charges taxes to its sex-traders, this means (at a 40% tax for income above €66,679) that €1,152,000,000 goes to the state’s vaults. This is a lot of money.
Countries like Portugal do not charge income taxes to its prostitutes’...

Is prostitution moral? You tell me. Morality is a“Code of conduct which is held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong." And since codes of conduct have been changing over time, I will refrain from saying whatsoever. For now, I only can say what is immoral: to force people into prostitution.


Striptease is a legal activity where women not only undress themselves slowly while dancing but also perform exotic sexually charged choreographies thru the use of a pole.
I little have to say about this profession since it has put many young women through college. If they are not forced into it, exploited, obligated to provide sexual services, and they are grown up women….I don’t see why not.
Pole dancing has become extremely popular. So popular that it is turning into a sport and a performing art; which means that many women (and men apparently) join pole dancing classes to learn how to do a knee hold (image above), a cross knee release; spins, body inversions, etc.

Before leaving, I’d like to offer some tips to strip-club owners:
I. Image is everything: cellulite damages big time (if you invest in breast implants, why not investing in anti-cellulite creams and in a masseuse?).
II. Keep your club classy: who knows, you might even draw a female clientele.
III. Look at Moulin Rouge and the Crazy Horse: first class dancers and acts.

Now, why do men, in general, enjoy striptease shows so much anyway?


For further reading on this inflammable theme, please beam over to LS’ blog: Here


[1] Phat: pretty hot and tempting.
Image: taken from Wikipedia.

Comments

  1. Here in Brazil, prostitution also stands for Social Service!
    We, men, like striptease shows because we get excited by looking at them. It makes part of our nature. We get excited by the form of the women bodies, their movements, we like to see them getting rid of their clothes. It's all about vision! That's the way we are.
    Many men would like their wives could do striptease, they say that relationships could get better. If it's true I don't know because I'm not married.

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  2. Maximus….

    Congratulations on your coy and rather coquette perspective….

    As far as “professional” neither of these forms of selling sex would qualify in Canada as such. Technically such a designation requires a standards association with commensurate certified education by a professional body….not over sexed men leering and pawing at a girls naked body….

    “When we speak of prostitution, we visualise women in utterly tasteless attires, soliciting somewhere in the streets; or we see women clad in designer garbs escorting highly successful business (yet unsuccessful in relationships) men.”

    - When I “visualize” prostitution I just have to think of people I have known and know….ALL of who’s lives have been trashed one way or another by these activities…I include the prostitutes themselves and those who have paid money for sex. It is ugly there is nothing “sexy” “economically feasible” or profitable for “educational advancement”…The damage is so derailing that any supposed positives are a train wreck…Are there those who may seem to have mitigated the damage? Those who seem happy? Yes…and they are masquerades….and/or they are so damaged they do not even know what a mess they are…

    The taxation argument is a tax on the intellect…such taxation does nothing to mitigate the massive social and personal damage that is perpetrated thru such activities…

    As I attest in my article we have institutional morality thru popular consent, judicial morality and implemented morality thru our police enforcement…However these are not the absolute Standard of morality…God is The Standard…and these kinds of behaviour militate against God therefore no matter human consent they are wrong…

    The same can be said in regards to strippers…it is not art it is sin….

    “Now, why do men, in general, enjoy striptease shows so much anyway?”

    - Sexual depravity…sin…is intrinsic to human nature…it is about sex…but really it is all about power…broken lives….However the good news is there is a cure!

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  3. Legalize Prostitution the government has to much control over us.Why don't you ban tobacco why we are at it.It kills more people.

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  4. Hello Olivia….

    Would you prefer to live in anarchy or democracy? Western societies are based upon freedom in community (democracy) not individualistic anarchy. Be careful what you wish for because if you are not the one and it is one at the very top of the “food chain” then you are either the appetizer, main course or dessert…

    Would you also like to eliminate the laws against murder and rape? How much government control is too much? How do you define “control”? Is government not also a protector (albeit an imperfect one)?

    Tobacco is bad should we add more problems to society or less? Is death the only standard by which we measure success or failure?

    I suggest that it helps to move beyond theoretical models to remembering we are speaking of real lives…

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  5. Howdy Max,

    First, a tiny observation: You put in €500/day and €3,000/month. Should that be €3,000/week?

    What do you think of the claim that marriage is just like prostitution, except that it is a bigger transaction: A life time of sex is exchanged for a life time of money?

    Regarding the strip joints, I am also wondering about certain social ills such as married men spending money on strip joints - perhaps as an addiction - when their families are in debt and living on the edge ... When I lived in Japan, I disturbed the company evenings a few times by opting out of a trip to a strip joint. On the flip side, it does seem to provide quite an education to college girls regarding the effectiveness of certain social skills ... Do you think that this effects how the girls will behave if they join a company later?

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  6. Hi Max,

    I loved this article; it is well written and all I have to say is:
    As long as women aren't exploited and forced into prostitution people should mind their own business.

    Moral? Please...abortion is legal all over Europe; and don't tell me that someone is trying to convince me that interrupting life is more acceptable than an adult man/woman freely selling its body...
    Nonsense...

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  7. Dux Probus….

    Nice to meet you….

    First prostitution and stripping are innately exploitive….

    Second interesting point comparing abortion….are you saying we should allow every evil right up to the evil of abortion? Let us look at this….

    Hello all you evil actions please line up over here on the left behind abortion….rape please stand behind abortion you are allowed because you are not quite so bad….hmmm…theft could you please stand 2 paces behind rape….now where have you gone reckless endangerment….always running off…

    So because some do not view prostitution and stripping to be as bad as abortion they should be allowed? Then again since we allow abortion should murder also be legal? What next…..

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  8. Hi Gato Cid :D!

    "Here in Brazil, prostitution also stands for Social Service!"

    I know...tell me, are the "casas da Luz Vermelha" still legal there?

    "We, men, like striptease shows because we get excited by looking at them. It makes part of our nature. We get excited by the form of the women bodies, their movements, we like to see them getting rid of their clothes. It's all about vision! That's the way we are."

    I see...thanks for having explained me, Cidão :D!

    "Many men would like their wives could do striptease, they say that relationships could get better. If it's true I don't know because I'm not married."

    Really? I didn't know that (I learned something new today). LOL I can't answer that for you either...but perhaps someone will, who knows?

    Gato Cid, thank you so much for your comment (you taught me something new): as always, I loved it :D!

    Beijos

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  9. Hi LSus :D!

    "Congratulations on your coy and rather coquette perspective…."

    Thanks! "coy" in what sense, mate?

    "As far as “professional” neither of these forms of selling sex would qualify in Canada as such. Technically such a designation requires a standards association with commensurate certified education by a professional body….not over sexed men leering and pawing at a girls naked body…."

    You don't say? Well, in some European countries they are considered professionals and there is even a Union for them (just like in South Korea).
    LOL LOL @ "not over sexed men leering and pawing at a girls naked body…." you kill me, LS *nodding*...so, were you one of these "over sexed men"?

    "- When I “visualize” prostitution I just have to think of people I have known and know….ALL of who’s lives have been trashed one way or another by these activities…I include the prostitutes themselves and those who have paid money for sex."

    But did you visualise them as such when you were a sinner yourself (mind you, I use this word "sinner" because you fancy it so much)?

    "It is ugly there is nothing “sexy” “economically feasible” or profitable for “educational advancement”…The damage is so derailing that any supposed positives are a train wreck…Are there those who may seem to have mitigated the damage? Those who seem happy? Yes…and they are masquerades….and/or they are so damaged they do not even know what a mess they are…"

    Is it ugly when women are exploited or is it ugly, period? I ask you: what if a woman enjoys being a whore and is good at this profession? Are you saying that she should not exercise the profession of her dreams because a few people think it is "ugly"? What if she thinks it nice?
    You are generalising the issue, LS...

    "The taxation argument is a tax on the intellect…such taxation does nothing to mitigate the massive social and personal damage that is perpetrated thru such activities…"

    I don't think the "tax argument" is intended to mitigate any damage. The argument is: you generate revenue, pay taxes.
    Prostitution is one of the many forms to do money laundry: if governments really want to fight it, they can start by legalising this profession.

    "As I attest in my article we have institutional morality thru popular consent, judicial morality and implemented morality thru our police enforcement…However these are not the absolute Standard of morality…God is The Standard…and these kinds of behaviour militate against God therefore no matter human consent they are wrong…"

    LS, with all due respect; God gave us many codes of conduct that have been rejected as being too harsh over the times. Two examples:

    «If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished.» (Exodus 21:20) - it was quite acceptable to have slaves, God does not condemn it in the Bible. Does this mean, that since He is the Standard of morality (a code of behaviour), we should still condone slavery?

    «But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.» (Exodus 21:23-25) - yet Jesus came and changed this by teaching that men should offer the other cheek. Jesus changed the code of conduct instructed by God.
    There is that saying "violence generates more violence" when we say this, are we going against the Standard of morality (since He said we should "appoint as penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth" in case of injury)?

    Now, about prostitution militating against God...who told you this? Did God come to you, in Person, and told you this? If this statement were true, how come God allowed Joshuah to save the Prostitute Rahab when Israel took over Jericho? If God thought prostitution to be such a sin, He could have said "Joshuah, I have given Jericho into your hand...but kill that sinner Rahab for her activities militate against ME!".
    God placed that Prostitute in the spies' way to help them.
    And must I mention the relationship of Jesus with prostitutes? If he judged them not, why should you?

    "The same can be said in regards to strippers…it is not art it is sin…."

    «He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.»...I believe you know these words...follow them.

    "- Sexual depravity…sin…is intrinsic to human nature…it is about sex…but really it is all about power…broken lives….However the good news is there is a cure!"

    Sexual depravity is intrinsic to human nature? Are you saying that there is no difference between my mother (and all the women & men like her) and a whore or a man who enjoys striptease? If your answer is positive, then there is no point in being virtuous; and if your answer is negative, then I am afraid you need to rephrase your statement.

    LS, thank you thank you for this challenging conversation :D!

    Cheers

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  10. Hey Oliva :D!

    Welcome to the MAX!

    "Legalize Prostitution the government has to much control over us.Why don't you ban tobacco why we are at it.It kills more people."

    You say "the government has to much control over us"...should it be inferred you are in the métier?
    Legalising prostitution will translate into protection, control of public health, fighting sexual slavery and money laundry.

    Too much control...let me tell you what lack of control has brought: young girls being kidnapped to be forced into prostitution; women being told that they are going abroad to work as housemaids and end up in illegal brothels and bars being raped everyday by more than 10 men; children being stolen from their parents to be forced into sexual slavery...
    The number of people being forced into prostitution is growing like crazy, and you speak of "too much control"...there is no such thing when it comes to sex and its trade.

    Oliva, thank you so much for sharing your point of view with us :)!

    Cheers

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  11. Howdy Looney :D!

    "First, a tiny observation: You put in €500/day and €3,000/month. Should that be €3,000/week?"

    YES! You are right: thank you so much (I have already corrected it) :D!

    "What do you think of the claim that marriage is just like prostitution, except that it is a bigger transaction: A life time of sex is exchanged for a life time of money?"

    Heavens no! A true marriage, where love (or care, respect) is involved can never be compared to prostitution; because the commitment to form a family, to construct a set of values, to support the spouse despite the vicissitudes of life, to build a life together is present and it usually is sincere, and sacred.
    However, if one gets married with the sole intention of obtaining goods (i.e. no sentiment nor respect is involved) and money...then yeah, it is prostitution...know what I mean?

    "Regarding the strip joints, I am also wondering about certain social ills such as married men spending money on strip joints - perhaps as an addiction - when their families are in debt and living on the edge ..."

    That is an excellent point! Do you think it is an addiction or is it selfishness (only they chose the way that best suited them to reflect that self-centredness)?

    "When I lived in Japan, I disturbed the company evenings a few times by opting out of a trip to a strip joint"

    Not all men like it.
    That is why I am trying to understand why men in general seem to like it so much? What does it mean, how does it make them feel?
    There are women who like male strippers, but I personally don't see the point of it (men in thongs...I don't understand it).

    "On the flip side, it does seem to provide quite an education to college girls regarding the effectiveness of certain social skills ... Do you think that this effects how the girls will behave if they join a company later?"

    It does. I have noticed that some young girls (who have participated in such activities) think that they can use flirt and sexual attributes in order to get where they aim at. But I have also observed this type of behaviour in women who have never exercised such professions.
    And I have seen women who have worked as strippers (and when joining a company later) behave very professionally.
    This being said, I am not sure it is the profession that affects girls'/women's behaviour in a company environment, I think it is their own nature.

    Looney, thank you so much for this awesome comment: excellent :D! And thanks for having corrected my distraction!

    Cheers

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  12. Hi Dux :D!

    "I loved this article; it is well written and all I have to say is: As long as women aren't exploited and forced into prostitution people should mind their own business."

    Thank you *bowing*!
    Hear, Hear!! I agree with you.

    "Moral? Please...abortion is legal all over Europe; and don't tell me that someone is trying to convince me that interrupting life is more acceptable than an adult man/woman freely selling its body...Nonsense..."

    I also do not see how morality can be applied to this issue (and trust me, I tried) *nodding*. So many things have been considered immoral and amoral in the past; and now those same things are totally "moral".
    People are hypocritical, you know how it goes.

    Allow me to share something with you: many years ago, when I used to go to ride a bus to Lisbon; there were 2 prostitutes that got off at the Parque Eduardo VII (the whore trade spot and the bus final stop); if the bus would be full and the only two seats left were the ones facing them...people would not sit there, can you believe it *nodding*? And these were the people that were seen every Sunday at the mass...
    Needless to say, that I was their usual company in the way to Lisboa.

    Dux Probus, thank you so so much for having shared your thoughts with us; I loved it :D!

    Cheers

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  13. Hello Max,

    This week's article is a tough one for the subject isn't pacific.

    Prostitution can be amoral: when a husband decides to be his wife's pimp and, when unscrupulous gangs exploit women by forcing them into prostitution.
    This profession is like food, for is always in demand no matter what; however the question should be: what drives people to engage in such activity? It's known for not being an easy path or even an easy way out, so what's behind it? A taste for sex, and addiction or fate?

    Should this activity contribute to national GDP in a form of taxes? Why not? After all abortion is legal and the medical personal and their clinics do pay taxes for offering such services.

    Striptease: some men claim that (with cellulite or not) it can be liberating: go figure!

    Great post, Max!

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  14. Hello Circulus Ciceronis :D!

    "This week's article is a tough one for the subject isn't pacific."

    It is...LS chose the theme this time...

    "Prostitution can be amoral: when a husband decides to be his wife's pimp and, when unscrupulous gangs exploit women by forcing them into prostitution."

    Absolutely! You know, in Portugal, a husband pimping his wife...it is rather common *nodding*...so sad.
    Ah, I call those gangs "Matrioshki"....they are cruel and disgusting.

    "This profession is like food, for is always in demand no matter what; however the question should be: what drives people to engage in such activity? It's known for not being an easy path or even an easy way out, so what's behind it? A taste for sex, and addiction or fate?"

    True (that is why it is the oldest profession in the world).
    I think it goes beyond a taste for sex or an addiction (sex addicts use sex to conceal a much bigger problem). Sometimes I think it falls under Fatum. God made use of a prostitute to save Israel's spies, in Jericho...that was Rahab's fate (God's order).

    "Should this activity contribute to national GDP in a form of taxes? Why not? After all abortion is legal and the medical personal and their clinics do pay taxes for offering such services."

    It should. True...but you know people and sex (they have an odd relationship with it)...*nodding*.

    "Striptease: some men claim that (with cellulite or not) it can be liberating: go figure!"

    LOL LOL LOL oh, really? *taking notes*....all right, all right...LOL LOL *nodding*....

    "Great post, Max!"

    Thanks :D!

    C.C, thank you so much for your outstanding comment (and for having answered my question: I learned a new thing) :D!

    Cheers

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  15. Hi Max,

    What a topic. Did LS put you up to this? I think that he is trying to corrupt you.
    Who knew there were so many types of prostitutes? Now my life is complete. ;D

    There is such a subculture of prostitution. Is there really a distinction in what type if they all engage in the same thing? There is even a hierarchy in prostitution. The one's who stand on the corner and those who are more discreet; Call girls; Escorts; Lewinsky's, etc.

    Prostitution has been around in some form or another since the dawn of written history. In many ancient cultures, female prostitution was an accepted profession for many women, especially those who could not earn a living any other way - husbands killed in war or died from laboring. It wasn't until the church - especially the Christian church - decided that sex was bad that prostitution became a 'sordid' form of employment.

    Even then prostitution and brothels enjoyed varying levels of acceptance in the public eye. Some cities and towns had entire red light districts where brothels were, if not welcomed, at least tolerated, so long as the owners and management made their 'donations' to the local law enforcement.

    Though strictly illegal, the proliferation of prostitution enabled police corruption to flourish. In western society, there has always been a two-faced, rather double standard towards prostitution. Men who publicly railed against painted women and touted morality and decency were also the prime customers of many madams and prostitutes.

    When prostitution is illegal, standards for cleanliness and safety are difficult to carry out or enforce, and also leads to the rise of pimps to manage and control the individual prostitute, paying off the police and controlling their turf. When prostitution is legalized and regulated through standards, the women are safer and cleaner - parts of Nevada have legalized brothels, and the world hasn't come to an end yet from it.

    "...in France each prostitute earns at least €500/day; if they work 6 days a week (because even sex-traders must rest) they’ll earn €3,000/month, which means that at the end of a fiscal year they will make €144,000. It is estimated to be 20,000 prostitutes in this country, which means that this is a €2,880,000,000 business. Since the French government charges taxes to its sex-traders, this means (at a 40% tax for income above €66,679) that €1,152,000,000 goes to the state’s vaults."

    Wow. Maybe America should consider this to battle unemployment?

    "cellulite damages big time (if you invest in breast implants, why not investing in anti-cellulite creams and in a masseuse?)."

    ROFL. ROFL. ROFL. ROFL.

    "Now, why do men, in general, enjoy striptease shows so much anyway?"

    I suppose it satisfies a primordial urge to see women in a powerful position. For that moment she has the power in her hands.


    I heard this joke once.

    A doctor, a civil engineer, and a computer scientist were discussing which was the oldest profession.

    The doctor pointed out that according to Biblical tradition, God created Eve from Adam's rib. This obviously required surgery, so therefore that was the oldest profession in the world.

    The engineer countered with an earlier passage in the Bible that stated that God created order from the chaos, and that was most certainly the biggest and best civil engineering example ever, and also proved that his profession was the oldest profession.

    The computer scientist leaned back in her chair, and with a sly smile responded, "Yes, but who do you think created the chaos?"

    Scintillating article my dear. I don't know how you continue to do it, but I am grateful that you do.

    Scintillating Cheers.

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  16. Hi Alexys,

    What a surprise :D!

    "What a topic. Did LS put you up to this? I think that he is trying to corrupt you."

    LOL I must admit he did. LOL LOL LOL I think it is a bit difficult, but he can try LOL...

    "Who knew there were so many types of prostitutes? Now my life is complete. ;D"

    ROFL...

    "There is such a subculture of prostitution. Is there really a distinction in what type if they all engage in the same thing? There is even a hierarchy in prostitution. The one's who stand on the corner and those who are more discreet; Call girls; Escorts; Lewinsky's, etc."

    No, there is no distinction...but you see, I have seen some of these harlots (who think they are superior to those who work on the corner) looking down on their colleagues and firmly believing they are "ladies"...this part of the article was for them.
    Hierarchy is everywhere.
    "Lewinsky's" LOL LOL LOL I had forgotten about that one...you are right.

    "Prostitution has been around in some form or another since the dawn of written history."

    True. And it is here to stay. It will never end.

    "In many ancient cultures, female prostitution was an accepted profession for many women, especially those who could not earn a living any other way - husbands killed in war or died from laboring. It wasn't until the church - especially the Christian church - decided that sex was bad that prostitution became a 'sordid' form of employment."

    You are right again.
    In some modern cultures it is still accepted - in Korea, Japan, Israel, Thailand, Netherlands, Germany etc...
    Oh yes, the Christian church decided that sex is filthy (when not for reproduction purposes) and that sex-trading is a sin...it is said that it became so because Catholic priests used to have fun with harlots (and young girls and nuns - there are so many stories about nuns and the kings and priests [prior to the 19th century] here...like you wouldn't believe) and at some point these women started talking about their relationship (and in some cases having their kids), it all turned into a big scandal etc etc...and suddenly the women they used to "love"...were now sordid.

    "Even then prostitution and brothels enjoyed varying levels of acceptance in the public eye. Some cities and towns had entire red light districts where brothels were, if not welcomed, at least tolerated, so long as the owners and management made their 'donations' to the local law enforcement."

    True. Well, 57 years ago (in France) brothels were legal and quite tolerated; there were brothels here, in Portugal, 36 years ago (under the fascist regime) where men would go discreetly and no one would ever know (the sex-traders had a certificate of health, stating their profession and they health status, and paid taxes). But somehow after the revolution, they thought they were liberating these women (and declared brothels to be illegal), when in fact they exposed them to violence.
    In Brazil, you still have the red light houses...today.

    "Though strictly illegal, the proliferation of prostitution enabled police corruption to flourish. In western society, there has always been a two-faced, rather double standard towards prostitution. Men who publicly railed against painted women and touted morality and decency were also the prime customers of many madams and prostitutes."

    So true. That is why I always look askance at men (and women) who enjoy bashing sex-traders... *nodding*...it seems like they have this hidden wish of being their customers (or of becoming a prostitue themselves)...quite freudian.

    "When prostitution is illegal, standards for cleanliness and safety are difficult to carry out or enforce, and also leads to the rise of pimps to manage and control the individual prostitute, paying off the police and controlling their turf."

    Again, so true.

    "When prostitution is legalized and regulated through standards, the women are safer and cleaner - parts of Nevada have legalized brothels, and the world hasn't come to an end yet from it."

    I utterly agree.
    One may not agree with this sort of profession, however we are talking about human beings here and as such, they deserve to do their job in a safe and clean fashion.
    But it seems to me that people (and thus, governments) allow their personal beliefs get in the way of common sense. Prostitution is not going away (no matter how loud religious people may shout how sinful it is), period.

    "Wow. Maybe America should consider this to battle unemployment?"

    LOL LOL...Lady A LOL...

    "ROFL. ROFL. ROFL. ROFL."

    LOL isn't it true? However, men seem to be ok with it...*nodding*.

    "I suppose it satisfies a primordial urge to see women in a powerful position. For that moment she has the power in her hands."

    Aaaahhhh, that makes more sense. But does a man admit to it? So far....nope.

    "I heard this joke once."

    Let's hear it...

    "A doctor, a civil engineer, and a computer scientist were discussing which was the oldest profession. (...) The computer scientist leaned back in her chair, and with a sly smile responded, "Yes, but who do you think created the chaos?"

    LOL LOL indeed...*nodding*...

    "Scintillating article my dear. I don't know how you continue to do it, but I am grateful that you do."

    Thank you, Lady A *bowing*! LOL I don't know either, girl...but thanks for your kindness :D!

    A, thank you a million for this awesome awesome comment: I love respect you have for human beings *bowing*! :D

    Sparkly Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  17. Asian governments regard this issue very differently than many European countries. Yet, even in Europe, more liberal and more conservative ideas exist. This is why different laws exist in different countries. At some point, all human laws may break down. True freedom exists on the other side of conditioned reason.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Very interesting post and a delicate matter. I'm from Norway and your right: prostitution is illegal, meaning its forbidden to buy sex. I think that is good as it is the buyer that is the problem.
    It was a big debate before they pass the law, e.g. some said prostitution would go underground. That has not happened.

    Striptease is something else if its done willingly by the women. I like it as I see it as art and respect their professionalism. The problem is more the men who are watching and only see them as sexual objects. That tells a lot more about the men and their dirty mind, rather than the girls who like to show their artistic art. Of course its sensual, but that is another thing and is not dirty - its natural!

    I look at belly dancing the same way and in some cultures that is great art too of course.

    I hope the strip club owners read your post. It would be great if more woman goes to clubs like that to balance out the crowds of men with dirty mind!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hi Max,

    "What a surprise :D!"

    Don't you love surprises?

    "No, there is no distinction...but you see, I have seen some of these harlots (who think they are superior to those who work on the corner) looking down on their colleagues and firmly believing they are "ladies"...this part of the article was for them."

    :-o

    "In some modern cultures it is still accepted - in Korea, Japan, Israel, Thailand, Netherlands, Germany etc..."

    I only knew about the Netherlands.

    Yes, I know about the Catholic church and all of their scandals. Don't you think that the priests should be allowed to marry. It may cut down on all the sexual abuse.


    "[France] But somehow after the revolution, they thought they were liberating these women (and declared brothels to be illegal), when in fact they exposed them to violence."

    That's awful. Just because a woman is in that "profession" doesn't mean she deserved to be exposed to more violence.

    "In Brazil, you still have the red light houses...today."

    Really? Didn't know that either.

    "One may not agree with this sort of profession, however we are talking about human beings here and as such, they deserve to do their job in a safe and clean fashion.
    But it seems to me that people (and thus, governments) allow their personal beliefs get in the way of common sense. Prostitution is not going away (no matter how loud religious people may shout how sinful it is), period."

    As long as their are sexual urges, there will always prostitution.

    "A, thank you a million for this awesome awesome comment: I love respect you have for human beings *bowing*! :D"

    That's nice. Thanks. We are all spiritual beings having a human experience.

    Moulin Rouge (The Film) Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Maximus….

    "Congratulations on your coy and rather coquette perspective…."
    >Thanks! "coy" in what sense, mate?

    - Coy = artfully or affectedly shy or reserved; slyly hesitant; coquettish…..My tongue is hurting my cheek…

    "As far as “professional” neither of these forms of selling sex would qualify in Canada as such. Technically such a designation requires a standards association with commensurate certified education by a professional body….not over sexed men leering and pawing at a girls naked body…."
    > You don't say? Well, in some European countries they are considered professionals and there is even a Union for them (just like in South Korea).
    LOL LOL @ "not over sexed men leering and pawing at a girls naked body…." you kill me, LS *nodding*...so, were you one of these "over sexed men"?

    - I am aware of the lasciviousness of Europe in regards to unionization of prostitution…Of course if people do not value human dignity or trust in God then depravity rules the day until He cleans things up…

    "- When I “visualize” prostitution I just have to think of people I have known and know….ALL of who’s lives have been trashed one way or another by these activities…I include the prostitutes themselves and those who have paid money for sex."
    > But did you visualise them as such when you were a sinner yourself (mind you, I use this word "sinner" because you fancy it so much)?

    - LOL Well in order to become a follower of Jesus one must admit to being a sinner so I will own that title. However as I am living the transformation life I have changed because of His work in my life…certainly not by trying to be good, religious or moral…Before becoming a Jesus follower I was depraved and broken so I had no problem with it…as men fool and manipulate women into thinking crazy thoughts about these activities most men would have no problem with it…

    "It is ugly there is nothing “sexy” “economically feasible” or profitable for “educational advancement”…The damage is so derailing that any supposed positives are a train wreck…Are there those who may seem to have mitigated the damage? Those who seem happy? Yes…and they are masquerades….and/or they are so damaged they do not even know what a mess they are…"
    >Is it ugly when women are exploited or is it ugly, period? I ask you: what if a woman enjoys being a whore and is good at this profession? Are you saying that she should not exercise the profession of her dreams because a few people think it is "ugly"? What if she thinks it nice?
    You are generalising the issue, LS...

    - I would start be saying that God did not create sex for this kind of application. Therefore it is spiritually unhealthy….it is sin. Note I am not saying sex is sin but these applications are sin for both genders…. If people choose to be an abortionist should we then make the same argument you are making? It is not about my thoughts on the topic it is about the Creators…He is the Standard…All instances of prostitution is sin…we are a broken-sinful species…

    "The taxation argument is a tax on the intellect…such taxation does nothing to mitigate the massive social and personal damage that is perpetrated thru such activities…"
    > I don't think the "tax argument" is intended to mitigate any damage. The argument is: you generate revenue, pay taxes.
    Prostitution is one of the many forms to do money laundry: if governments really want to fight it, they can start by legalising this profession.

    - No prostitution no problem….It is amazing how men con women so they can have power plays and sexual thrills…

    "As I attest in my article we have institutional morality thru popular consent, judicial morality and implemented morality thru our police enforcement…However these are not the absolute Standard of morality…God is The Standard…and these kinds of behaviour militate against God therefore no matter human consent they are wrong…"
    > LS, with all due respect; God gave us many codes of conduct that have been rejected as being too harsh over the times. Two examples:
    «If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished.» (Exodus 21:20) - it was quite acceptable to have slaves, God does not condemn it in the Bible. Does this mean, that since He is the Standard of morality (a code of behaviour), we should still condone slavery?
    «But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.» (Exodus 21:23-25) - yet Jesus came and changed this by teaching that men should offer the other cheek. Jesus changed the code of conduct instructed by God.
    There is that saying "violence generates more violence" when we say this, are we going against the Standard of morality (since He said we should "appoint as penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth" in case of injury)?

    - Actually God did end slavery:

    In Christ's family there can be no division into Jew and non-Jew, slave and free, male and female. Among us you are all equal. That is, we are all in a common relationship with Jesus Christ. Also, since you are Christ's family, then you are Abraham's famous "descendant," heirs according to the covenant promises.
    - - Galatians 5:28-29

    Don't lie to one another. You're done with that old life. It's like a filthy set of ill-fitting clothes you've stripped off and put in the fire. Now you're dressed in a new wardrobe. Every item of your new way of life is custom-made by the Creator, with his label on it. All the old fashions are now obsolete. Words like Jewish and non-Jewish, religious and irreligious, insider and outsider, uncivilized and uncouth, slave and free, mean nothing. From now on everyone is defined by Christ, everyone is included in Christ.
    - - Colossians 3:9-11

    For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
    - - 2 Corinthians 3:17

    It is interesting that you would speak of Jesus’ words about turning the other cheek…You see Matthew 5-7 is all about Jesus pointing out the Law cannot be successfully kept by us….religion and morality cannot get us right with God… The Law is a tutor a shepherds crook pointing us to Jesus and His grace…when we try to keep the Law we are convicted by our failure to do so properly…we need grace…

    >Now, about prostitution militating against God...who told you this? Did God come to you, in Person, and told you this? If this statement were true, how come God allowed Joshuah to save the Prostitute Rahab when Israel took over Jericho? If God thought prostitution to be such a sin, He could have said "Joshuah, I have given Jericho into your hand...but kill that sinner Rahab for her activities militate against ME!".
    God placed that Prostitute in the spies' way to help them.
    And must I mention the relationship of Jesus with prostitutes? If he judged them not, why should you?

    - LOL LOL LOL LOL First let me point out again that I am not picking on prostitutes...this just happens to be the theme of the day…also remember that I am including those who are also paying for sex…the men! Go loves all sinners! But we have to admit we are sinners…I AM A SINNER….that is not so hard if we are not full of negative pride…

    16-18"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.

    19-21"This is the crisis we're in: God-light streamed into the world, but men and women everywhere ran for the darkness. They went for the darkness because they were not really interested in pleasing God. Everyone who makes a practice of doing evil, addicted to denial and illusion, hates God-light and won't come near it, fearing a painful exposure. But anyone working and living in truth and reality welcomes God-light so the work can be seen for the God-work it is."
    - - John 3:16-21

    Now to Rahab you can do better than that! She is in Jesus human lineage! See Matthew 1:5 LOL LOL Moses was a murderer and God chose to use him…and Moses did not get things right with God by being good but by faith! Just because God chooses to use broken people does not mean He condones their sin! If He would only use perfect sinless people He would have none of us to work with! We are all sinners…I am and you are…Jesus calls sex outside of the One flesh” relationship sin…Jesus said tot the woman caught in the act of adultery “go forth and sin no more” He makes it clear it was a sin…we are told:

    From then on Jesus began to preach, “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near. ”
    - - Matthew 4:17

    I am surprised that you fell into the old trap on judging…we have had this conversation…Jesus makes it clear we are not to judge self righteously or hypocritically…however He tells us to use discernment! I am not being self righteous or hypocritical I am applying discernment…After all remember I admit I am a sinner…

    "The same can be said in regards to strippers…it is not art it is sin…."
    > «He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.»...I believe you know these words...follow them.

    - ROFL ROFL Well isn’t that funny! I just read this! This point is dead…

    "- Sexual depravity…sin…is intrinsic to human nature…it is about sex…but really it is all about power…broken lives….However the good news is there is a cure!"
    > Sexual depravity is intrinsic to human nature? Are you saying that there is no difference between my mother (and all the women & men like her) and a whore or a man who enjoys striptease? If your answer is positive, then there is no point in being virtuous; and if your answer is negative, then I am afraid you need to rephrase your statement.

    - For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. - - Romans 3:23

    LOL Get in line with the rest of us sinners…

    Now I do find it interesting that you seem to take offence at being compared to a whore (Something I NEVER said and would NEVER say about you or your mother!) LOL I am not interested in being moral, virtuous or religious! That street is a dead end! I am talking about the transformation life! God transforming who we are…His power not ours…I am a broken sinner I need Him to repair me…He is the cure…Max dear please move past stereotyping the Jesus life the way popular culture wants to put it in a religion or moral box…Strippers and prostitutes like everybody else including adulterers, murderers and “nice people” etc can come to God the same way….by god’s grace alone thru faith alone in Jesus alone…


    >LS, thank you thank you for this challenging conversation :D!

    - This is great! I will end by reiterating that I am a sinner…thankfully Jesus is now working in my life…but not because I deserve it….the point is I don’t deserve it and cannot earn it…grace dear…grace…Amazing grace…

    ReplyDelete
  21. Moral, immoral, prostitution will always exist. Whether you try to regulate it or not, nothing will work. It's the same with drugs and wars, you try your best to stop it but that's really the best you can do. This being said, you should not stop trying because once you give up hope, everything'll end...

    However I do say this, our society forces people into prostitution and everyone's responsible including yourself. To sit there and say that you're not responsible is wrong because you're part of our current society and way of life.

    I'm not saying we should not do anything about it, I'm just saying that if you try it, it may fuck everything up even more...

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hi Liara :D!

    "Asian governments regard this issue very differently than many European countries."

    True.

    "Yet, even in Europe, more liberal and more conservative ideas exist. This is why different laws exist in different countries."

    Also true.

    "At some point, all human laws may break down. True freedom exists on the other side of conditioned reason."

    I agree with you.

    Liara, you said it all...thank you for your input :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hey Renny :D!

    "Very interesting post and a delicate matter."

    Thank you *bowing*!

    "I'm from Norway and your right: prostitution is illegal, meaning its forbidden to buy sex. I think that is good as it is the buyer that is the problem. It was a big debate before they pass the law, e.g. some said prostitution would go underground. That has not happened."

    That is one successful case. So, there are not underground sex clubs in Norway?

    "Striptease is something else if its done willingly by the women. I like it as I see it as art and respect their professionalism. The problem is more the men who are watching and only see them as sexual objects. That tells a lot more about the men and their dirty mind, rather than the girls who like to show their artistic art. Of course its sensual, but that is another thing and is not dirty - its natural!"

    When done properly it is very beautiful indeed.
    I agree with you: many men have a dirty mind, and objectify exotic dancers; instead of just enjoying their art *nodding*.

    "I look at belly dancing the same way and in some cultures that is great art too of course."

    Exactly!
    But you know people....they don't know how to look beyond nudity.

    "I hope the strip club owners read your post. It would be great if more woman goes to clubs like that to balance out the crowds of men with dirty mind!"

    lol you are so kind, Renny! But deep down I wish they'd read it too...it would be nice if women could watch a proper exotic show like they do at Moulin Rouge or the Crazy Horse...

    Renny, thank you so much for your comment: I loved it :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hi Lady A,

    "Don't you love surprises?"

    I do :D!

    " :-o "

    Don't be shocked now...lol

    "Yes, I know about the Catholic church and all of their scandals. Don't you think that the priests should be allowed to marry. It may cut down on all the sexual abuse."

    To be honest with you, I think that if priests want to get married they should leave the Roman Catholic Church and go either the Orthodox Catholic, or Anglican or Protestant or even Evangelical churches if they wish (there is plenty to choose from). The rules in the Catholic church are simple and direct [chastity, poverty and obedience (it is not a secret)], so when one decides to be a Catholic priest one must be conscious of those rules and abide to them. Rules are rules.
    Now, the Catholic church must be able to vet its priests properly and when they commit a crime the church must not protect them, and it has to hand them to the civil authorities (if they want to behave like common humans, then they must be judged and convicted as such).

    "That's awful. Just because a woman is in that "profession" doesn't mean she deserved to be exposed to more violence."

    I meant the Portuguese Revolution (in 1974) [in France brothels became illegal in 1946]. I agree with you...

    "Really? Didn't know that either."

    Yes...they even make "telenovelas" depicting it.

    "As long as their are sexual urges, there will always prostitution."

    Yes...

    "That's nice. Thanks. We are all spiritual beings having a human experience."

    I meant it, girl. Don't mention it :D! Absolutely ^5!

    Lady Marmelade Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Regarding unions and sex workers, maybe someone can help me with some of my confusion.

    In the US, unions are generally associated with high costs and pathetic job performance. Is unionizing of sex workers perhaps just a clever back door way of inhibiting prostitution? I was in Charles de Gaulle airport when the custodians union had been on strike for a week (yuck!). What happens when the sex worker union goes on strike? Bug eyed government officials trying to give news conferences?

    Regarding Asia and prostitution, when the communist took over China in 1949, there was a big push to get rid of prostitution since this was associated with capitalist decadence. The Taliban would be proud of their efforts. Today, things have changed in China as high level government officials have been caught up in scandals where government funds have been redirected for the upkeep of concubines. This latter problem is something that can't be cured by legalizing prostitution.

    It does seem to me that prostitution is much like other social ills: You can't eradicate them, but can't you just accept them either - without paying a huge price in social ills.

    ReplyDelete
  26. LSus,

    "- Coy = artfully or affectedly shy or reserved; slyly hesitant; coquettish…..My tongue is hurting my cheek…"

    LOL LOL I know what the meaning of the word is; what I meant to know is...what (as a literary critic) did you find in the text that made you think of this word?
    LOL LOL...you are provocative, LS, that's what you are LOL...

    "- I am aware of the lasciviousness of Europe in regards to unionization of prostitution…Of course if people do not value human dignity or trust in God then depravity rules the day until He cleans things up…"

    ROFL....you didn't answer my question: "so, were you one of these "over sexed men"?

    "- LOL Well in order to become a follower of Jesus one must admit to being a sinner so I will own that title."

    So, to be a follower of Jesus one must admit to be a sinner for the rest of its life? As some sort of self-brainwash?

    "However as I am living the transformation life I have changed because of His work in my life…certainly not by trying to be good, religious or moral…"

    Let me see if I got this straight: before you were an hedonist and an atheist (and you didn't do anything for other people, only for yourself); now you are a follower of Jesus and a sinner (i.e. a religious person; a person who does good deeds [helps prostitutes, drug addicts, violent men, homeless people etc], you push the Bible onto others and speak as if you were the king of moral)...
    No, you are right...you do not try being good, religious or moral as a result of God's (not Jesus') work in your life...

    "- I would start be saying that God did not create sex for this kind of application. Therefore it is spiritually unhealthy….it is sin. Note I am not saying sex is sin but these applications are sin for both genders…. If people choose to be an abortionist should we then make the same argument you are making? It is not about my thoughts on the topic it is about the Creators…He is the Standard…All instances of prostitution is sin…we are a broken-sinful species…"

    I would start by saying that God created sex, period. He did not write on special stone plaques what we should do with sex. And since He didn't, some people do not feel they are going against Him when they do whatever they do.
    A sin means "transgression" and not "spiritually unhealthy"...not the same thing, LS.
    People choose to be abortionists and it is legal to do abortions; so I do not get your point.
    No, this is about your thoughts...because the Creator Has Not Left any comment on this article, man.

    "- No prostitution no problem…."

    Ok, let's not legalise it...let's forbid it...do you think it will do the trick?

    "It is amazing how men con women so they can have power plays and sexual thrills…"

    You should know...you were one of them...

    "- Actually God did end slavery:"

    LOL these are Saul's words...not God's.

    "It is interesting that you would speak of Jesus’ words about turning the other cheek…You see Matthew 5-7 is all about Jesus pointing out the Law cannot be successfully kept by us….religion and morality cannot get us right with God… The Law is a tutor a shepherds crook pointing us to Jesus and His grace…when we try to keep the Law we are convicted by our failure to do so properly…we need grace…"

    Yes, I am a very interesting person at times...
    Well, Jesus came to form a new group of thought, did he not? So, it is normal that he would say what he said...because if he hadn't, you would be a radical jew today, LS. But instead, we have a fantastic radical Christian that we love to pieces.

    "- LOL LOL LOL LOL First let me point out again that I am not picking on prostitutes...this just happens to be the theme of the day…also remember that I am including those who are also paying for sex…the men! Go loves all sinners! But we have to admit we are sinners…I AM A SINNER….that is not so hard if we are not full of negative pride…"

    You are picking on prostitutes, on sexual liberated people and on everybody that might remind you of your past (of which you should not feel ashamed of).
    Obviously, God loves all sinners....but this part I will leave to your blog...
    I must admit to nothing since I am not going to become a follower of Jesus ever. What I do and don't do is kept between me and God - to Him only I confess and admit and pray to.

    "If He would only use perfect sinless people He would have none of us to work with!"

    You will have to do better than this...I am not convinced.

    "We are all sinners…I am and you are…Jesus calls sex outside of the One flesh” relationship sin…Jesus said tot the woman caught in the act of adultery “go forth and sin no more” He makes it clear it was a sin…"

    Adultery is mentioned in God's commandments, is it not? Show me a passage where it speaks of two single people.

    "we are told: From then on Jesus began to preach, “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near. ”
    - - Matthew 4:17"

    You have not understood yet, have you? Jesus' teachings (as much as I enjoy reading them) are no commandment to me.

    "I am surprised that you fell into the old trap on judging…we have had this conversation…Jesus makes it clear we are not to judge self righteously or hypocritically…however He tells us to use discernment! I am not being self righteous or hypocritical I am applying discernment…After all remember I admit I am a sinner…"

    Judging...moi? Have I called people sinners? Have I said how awful their profession is? Have I brought religion to the midst of this conversation? No.
    You do all the judging by yourself...me, I am just conversing.
    LS, you do not discern (you are playing with words here)...you judge.

    "- ROFL ROFL Well isn’t that funny! I just read this! This point is dead…"

    *observing you as you experience denial*....

    "LOL Get in line with the rest of us sinners…"

    I would if I were a Christian...

    "Now I do find it interesting that you seem to take offence at being compared to a whore"

    ROFL...I know, I know...you are unsuccessful in trying to get to my wits...do not feel bad now...
    I suggest you re-read my sentence...(perhaps you took offence in my question).

    "(Something I NEVER said and would NEVER say about you or your mother!)"

    You could...you wouldn't be the first, and I am sure you wouldn't be the last...

    "LOL I am not interested in being moral, virtuous or religious!"

    Well, you sure fool us...

    "the point is I don’t deserve it and cannot earn it…grace dear…grace…Amazing grace…"

    I am ever so sorry to interrupt your religious orgasm, but I have something to ask:
    When are we going to meet LS' humanity? When are you going to communicate with us without your religious mask?
    I want your intellect, LS...give me your intellect.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hey Shan :D!

    It is nice to see you here, man!

    "Moral, immoral, prostitution will always exist. Whether you try to regulate it or not, nothing will work. It's the same with drugs and wars, you try your best to stop it but that's really the best you can do. This being said, you should not stop trying because once you give up hope, everything'll end..."

    Well, Shan...drugs...governments do not do much to fight them. Wars...some are justifiable.
    I understand what you mean...

    "However I do say this, our society forces people into prostitution and everyone's responsible including yourself. To sit there and say that you're not responsible is wrong because you're part of our current society and way of life."

    So, since you are responsible...what are you doing to prevent it?

    "I'm not saying we should not do anything about it, I'm just saying that if you try it, it may fuck everything up even more..."

    LOL *nodding*...

    Shan, thank you so much for sharing your opinion :D! You were missed, man!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  28. Looney,

    "Is unionizing of sex workers perhaps just a clever back door way of inhibiting prostitution?"

    It could be viewed as such, but it does not seem to inhibit it at all.

    "I was in Charles de Gaulle airport when the custodians union had been on strike for a week (yuck!). What happens when the sex worker union goes on strike? Bug eyed government officials trying to give news conferences?"

    LOL those are the French for you.
    Looney, when prostitutes go to the streets in protest (cause that is what they do when they go on strike)...governments do not like it, the church does not like it, the prude associations do not like it...yet the news networks like it (which initiates a series of steps, behind the scenes, to make them go back "to work").

    "This latter problem is something that can't be cured by legalizing prostitution."

    Ok, so what would you suggest that should be done? Ignore it?
    And if we keep ignoring, won't we be condoning human trafficking for sexual slavery purposes?

    "It does seem to me that prostitution is much like other social ills: You can't eradicate them, but can't you just accept them either - without paying a huge price in social ills."

    Abortion is a social ill and it was accepted (and ask why abortion was made legal). I do not support many social ills, but they are there regardless of my or your lack of support. We can't stick our head in the sand and expect prostitution to just go away, can we? There are two options, goverments either legalise it or prohibit it (like some European countries have done) - why aren't governments doing something about it, whom are they protecting?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Max,

    "Ok, so what would you suggest that should be done? Ignore it?
    And if we keep ignoring, won't we be condoning human trafficking for sexual slavery purposes? "

    I think it must be actively suppressed, because of the problems it creates. A bit like periodic termite removal from a house ...

    "Abortion is a social ill and it was accepted (and ask why abortion was made legal)"

    First, I am aware of the *alleged* reasons which are always brought out by the pro-abortion folk. The abortion advocates (a multi-billion dollar government funded industry) here in the US provide the data justifying abortion, which is as trustworthy as the e-mails I get from Nigerian princes.

    The prevailing opinion in America seems to be that abortion should be legal, but rare and restricted. The abortion industry has a "constitutional right" - apparently given by God - that they keep waving and scaring people into believing any restrictions will result in a descent into Iranian style theocracy and oppression. Certainly we can argue that we are making emotional and irrational choices regarding abortion, therefore we should make irrational choices regarding prostitution ...

    ReplyDelete
  30. Looney,

    "I think it must be actively suppressed, because of the problems it creates. A bit like periodic termite removal from a house ..."

    But human history has proved that it won't be suppressed. So, what should be done (in concrete)?

    "(...) here in the US provide the data justifying abortion, which is as trustworthy as the e-mails I get from Nigerian princes. "

    LOL LOL that is nasty, Looney LOL...

    "The prevailing opinion in America seems to be that abortion should be legal, but rare and restricted."

    Would you suggest the same for Prostitution?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Max, I think there is a startling lack of creativity in all of this. For example, if a man is caught with a prostitute, we could lock both of them up together in a small cell for a month ...

    Probably I am not the one to be offering solutions! ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  32. First of all, men are visual creatures. This is a biological fact. Men are sexually stimulated by images of beautiful women and sexual acts. There is nothing wrong, immoral, perverted, "dirty", or evil about that, because it is an innate biological reality. Pornography has existed since the beginning of time for that very reason. Pornography itself is exploitive of men. The production of pornography can be, and in some cases is, exploitive of women.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Looney and Max….

    Excellent!

    Obama could expand his government take over of private “industry” then prostitution would also go bankrupt!

    Brilliant!

    Look out GM your going to be beaten to Chapter 11 by prostitution….
    By the way the Word Verification for this comment is:

    FARKDOG

    ReplyDelete
  34. X-Girls aka Max and Alexys…

    There is no Biblical reason why pastors cannot marry. Peter who the Roman Catholic system claims as the first Pope (this is in error I will add) was married and there is no prohibition in Scripture…

    I believe the Roman Catholic system should continue with its unbiblical prohibition against priests marrying…it will dissolve that system sooner…

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  35. LS and Max,

    I was just reading in Gibbons about how prostitution was associated with the temples to Venus in Europe. It was quite a controversy when it was shut down!

    Herodotus also records that the Babylonians had a temple prostitution system. Every young woman in the nation was required to go to the temple and live until she had a customer. Only then could she leave and get married.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Looney and Max….

    …and then there were those Crazy Corinthians….

    ReplyDelete
  37. Angel :D! Hi!

    How have you been, darling?

    "First of all, men are visual creatures. This is a biological fact. Men are sexually stimulated by images of beautiful women and sexual acts. There is nothing wrong, immoral, perverted, "dirty", or evil about that, because it is an innate biological reality."

    Men are visual indeed. I see where you are coming from...

    "Pornography has existed since the beginning of time for that very reason. Pornography itself is exploitive of men. The production of pornography can be, and in some cases is, exploitive of women."

    True. But not everybody (men and women) likes Pornography, despite their being visual and sexually liberated.

    Angel, it was so nice to see you here (I hope all is well with the baby)! Thank you so much for having shared your opinion with us: I loved it! :D

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  38. Looney,

    "For example, if a man is caught with a prostitute, we could lock both of them up together in a small cell for a month ..."

    ROFL ROFL ROFL...this is funny! LOL LOL...*nodding*...

    "Probably I am not the one to be offering solutions! ;-)"

    LOL point taken ;)!

    ReplyDelete
  39. LS & Looney,

    "Obama could expand his government take over of private “industry” then prostitution would also go bankrupt!"

    LOL Oh no...the anti-President Obama in LS awoke!

    "By the way the Word Verification for this comment is: FARKDOG"

    LOL Nooo....

    ReplyDelete
  40. LS & Alexys,

    "X-Girls aka Max and Alexys…"

    LOL...X-Girls....I love that....LOL

    "There is no Biblical reason why pastors cannot marry."

    Yes, there is...Paul suggested that if some men could refrain from getting married they should so that they would not worry with matters of the world (and thus focus only in matters of the spirit) - but you knew that...you are simply pulling our legs! :)

    ReplyDelete
  41. Looney and LS,

    "Every young woman in the nation was required to go to the temple and live until she had a customer. Only then could she leave and get married."

    LOL...is that so? So, their young women were not to get married virgins? Interesting...

    ReplyDelete
  42. LS & Looney,

    "…and then there were those Crazy Corinthians…."

    Yeah....

    ReplyDelete
  43. Max,

    '"There is no Biblical reason why pastors cannot marry."

    Yes, there is...Paul suggested that if some men could refrain from getting married they should so that they would not worry with matters of the world (and thus focus only in matters of the spirit) - but you knew that...you are simply pulling our legs! :)'

    Um, Peter was married. That is why his mother-in-law is referred to in the book of Mark. Paul was just making excuses. After all, would you want to marry Paul?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Looney,

    "Um, Peter was married. That is why his mother-in-law is referred to in the book of Mark. Paul was just making excuses. After all, would you want to marry Paul?"

    Yes, I know.
    Paul may have been making excuses, but he did suggest that men shouldn't marry (if they could handle it).
    ROFL...LOL LOL you kill me!

    I read somewhere that the Catholic priests used to be married, but then Pope Alexander VI's reputation with the ladies (word says he had many mistresses) and his own daughter (Lucrecia Borgia)...led the church to follow Paul's advice...do you think it is true?

    ReplyDelete
  45. Max, the tendency to celibacy predates Alexander VI by more than a thousand years. I can't say the exact origin, but Origen (185-254AD) is said to have castrated himself to keep from being too distracted from his theological work. The Confessions of Saint Patrick talks about young people giving their lives to a life of celibacy.

    While we are on the subject of Renaissance popes, my one history book claimed that 10% of the population of Rome was registered as prostitutes during this era of church control. If I remember right, Luther noted that when a new priest arrived at a town, the population was relieved if he brought a concubine along, because that meant that their daughters (and sons) would be left alone.

    It is always a problem to have a sensible balance between disciplining human nature and also facing life. God doesn't leave us a neat final answer so that we don't have to keep coming back and facing the issues all over again. I do look forward to a time in heaven when these problems are gone.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Looney,

    "I can't say the exact origin, but Origen (185-254AD) is said to have castrated himself to keep from being too distracted from his theological work."

    That is harsh...can you imagine?

    "While we are on the subject of Renaissance popes, my one history book claimed that 10% of the population of Rome was registered as prostitutes during this era of church control."

    Yes, I read that too! The word used was "depraved". Prostitutes, assassins, robbers etc...comprised a significant number of the Roman population.

    "If I remember right, Luther noted that when a new priest arrived at a town, the population was relieved if he brought a concubine along, because that meant that their daughters (and sons) would be left alone."

    Oh my God...*nodding*.

    "It is always a problem to have a sensible balance between disciplining human nature and also facing life. God doesn't leave us a neat final answer so that we don't have to keep coming back and facing the issues all over again. I do look forward to a time in heaven when these problems are gone."

    True.
    Me too, Looney, me too.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Max, the ultimate challenge may be to detach oneself from a subject to the point where judgment no longer exists only comapassion does.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Thansk Max, I lost my baby..I think u didn't see my posts..

    ReplyDelete
  49. My objections to prostitution are twofold. One, that many women feel they are forced into it because of need: to maintain a place of residence (I won't say "home," under these conditions), feed themselves or their kids, or otherwise survive.

    Two, that it is criminalized by American society. If it were legalized, perhaps fewer STDs would be spread under the cover (not to make a pun) of clandestine activity.

    Prostitution serves a human need. But too often, it makes victims of both prostitutes and their clients. Why is there such a need for it, as well as porn?

    Maybe we should all look to ourselves for reasons why we don't have better mental health and more lasting, fulfilling relationships in our respective societies...

    As well a more just and equitable economic system.

    ReplyDelete
  50. WOAH...I don't know what to say here...I just feel sorry for some people who are forced to work as prostitutes (either lied at by some people that they'll get a good job abroad whereas they're actually forced to be prostitutes) or those who don't find any other way out for their financial problems.

    As to the rest who do it willingly...it's their own choice.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Max,

    Sorry it took me so long to comment. I have had a career change, for the better I hope. Anyway, the the matter at hand. It seems that the US, again, is centuries behind when it comes to prostitution. If we legalized it, as you have indicated in Portugal, it would be safer for the clients, safer for the prostitutes (I hate that word), reduce human trafficking, give us increased tax revenue....and everything positive. But NO, we are so self-righteous and better than the rest of the world.

    Nice post. I always look forward to what you will come up with next.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Max and Looney…

    Maximus you said: “Yes, I know.
    Paul may have been making excuses, but he did suggest that men shouldn't marry (if they could handle it).”

    This is actually a misrepresentation…I am guessing that this is accidental or you are just trying to encourage conversation so people understand Scripture better (it could not possibly be that you have a hate on for Paul…let us examine a few sections God the Holy Spirit inspired thru Paul). I am guessing you are referring to 1 Corinthians chapter 7? Yet in that chapter we are told:

    “It’s better to marry than to burn with lust.”
    - v 9b

    Actually the “better to marry” is a command in the original Greek and here is the thing this is not just written to men!

    In Romans 16:3-5 we are told:

    3 Give my greetings to Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in the ministry of Christ Jesus. 4 In fact, they once risked their lives for me. I am thankful to them, and so are all the Gentile churches. 5 Also give my greetings to the church that meets in their home.

    Priscilla and Aquila was a married couple Paul was very close with and that were his “co-workers in the ministry of Christ Jesus.” I would suggest that as he commends this couple to such an extent it is a prime example that it is perfectly fine for a pastor (elder) to be married. As a matter of fact some people actually think a man MUST be married to be a pastor (elder) as they apply the following passage (once again overall context does not support the “he must be married” position either as there are other examples of men that are elders (pastors) that are unmarried such as Timothy and Paul):

    1 This is a trustworthy saying: “If someone aspires to be an elder, he desires an honorable position.” 2 So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. 3 He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money. 4 He must manage his own family well, having children who respect and obey him. 5 For if a man cannot manage his own household, how can he take care of God’s church?
    6 An elder must not be a new believer, because he might become proud, and the devil would cause him to fall. 7 Also, people outside the church must speak well of him so that he will not be disgraced and fall into the devil’s trap.
    8 In the same way, deacons must be well respected and have integrity. They must not be heavy drinkers or dishonest with money. 9 They must be committed to the mystery of the faith now revealed and must live with a clear conscience. 10 Before they are appointed as deacons, let them be closely examined. If they pass the test, then let them serve as deacons.
    11 In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.
    12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife, and he must manage his children and household well. 13 Those who do well as deacons will be rewarded with respect from others and will have increased confidence in their faith in Christ Jesus.
    - - 1 Timothy 3:1-13

    Paul is certainly NOT supporting any such notion that a pastor should not be married…also please note the high respect and faithfulness men are to have for their wives…

    ReplyDelete
  53. SlogBite, I am having some trouble understanding your comment. In Europe, there is much legalized prostitution, but also a thriving sex slave trade. Asia also has a sex slave trade problem, with many showing up in progressive, up-to-date San Francisco - the center of the US sex slave trade.

    I know that the California lottery was promoted with promises of endless benefits that would come by legalizing and taxing this particular vice. It didn't work. In the end, however doesn't a nation's strength depend on its virtue, not its vice?

    ReplyDelete
  54. Looney,
    You pose an interesting question in regards to virtue vs. vice. To me it is a matter of victimless crimes. I just don't see the value in keeping prostitution a crime. Don't the police have more to do than putting away prostitutes and arresting the "Johns"? As far as slave trade goes....no, it will not eliminate it, but it will reduce it.

    I happen to feel the same way about drugs....but that is a much more complex issue......for another discussion.

    Men have needs and if we want to pay to get them satisfied and there are women willing to take money to satisfy those needs, why should that be a crime? Let's tax it and clean it it up.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Slogbite, Looney, Alexys, Max et al….

    Should there be seat belt laws?

    People are willing to allow certain restrictions on their freedoms for the common good…after all we live in democracies not anarchy…

    Does this mean that everybody wears seat belts? No, but over time the vast majority now do. We know that most people started wearing them because they were told to do so by the law. Statistically we now know that seat belt usage has had a huge positive impact.

    We went from not having a law to having a law that the vast majority support which has had a good upside.

    Currently prostitution is illegal in various forms in many nations. Even with the laws we have associated large social ills, it is not a “victimless crime”. If the laws are eliminated there is no evidence to prove things will get better however I suggest that actually things would get worse.

    As prostitution is illegal there are people that will not engage in those activities, for example studies here in Canada have shown that if illicit drug use was legalized here approx. 35% more people would use them than currently do so. The fact that something is illegal does dissuade large segments of the population from partaking in them. To some people the law matters…As somebody that has seen the effects these drugs have on people and society in general I see no reason to legalize them as they are a cancer on society.

    Of course the larger questions are from where does a society garner its authority to make laws? Is it simply a matter of might makes right (the state has more guns)? Why is it wrong to sexually exploit women? Is it wrong? How do we make that judgment?

    Although the consequences of not wearing a seatbelt can often be dire the case is at least equally dire for prostitution and its associated dangers.

    If people are willing to wear seatbelts legislated upon them it does not seem heavy handed to maintain laws against prostitution. To withdraw these laws and then experience the many additional problems and then to attempt to reestablish them would be problematic at the very least…the “genie would be out of the bottle”…

    All this being said I do not believe such laws are the end all be all. Why do people partake of such activities? What is the solution? Well I will leave those conversations to my article at Life on the Blade…

    ReplyDelete
  56. Oh my!

    Every time I start reading your blog, I always have a define answer in my head, and by the time I finish the article, I question everything... :D You are a great philosopher!

    I agree with you, prostitution is very badly dealt by the European Union. These women (and men!) status is hypocritical, they receive little if none consideration and not much is done to help.

    Now, is prostitution moral... Probably not. But we are all sinner, in the biblical sense and in the "normal" sense. We do tons of things we are not supposed to do everyday, going from crossing the street at a red light to drinking too much, from disrespecting someone to saying a white lie. We are human, basically.

    So we need to sin a little bit in life... and for some, seeing prostitute is their sin.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Liara,

    "Max, the ultimate challenge may be to detach oneself from a subject to the point where judgment no longer exists only comapassion does."

    I hear you!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Angel,

    I have been at your blog: I am so sorry to hear it *nodding*.
    May God be with you in this hour, darling!

    ReplyDelete
  59. Hey Lynda :D!

    "My objections to prostitution are twofold."

    Let's hear them...

    "One, that many women feel they are forced into it because of need: to maintain a place of residence (I won't say "home," under these conditions), feed themselves or their kids, or otherwise survive."

    This is true. But we also have those women who do it because they actually like it (believe it or not).

    "Two, that it is criminalized by American society. If it were legalized, perhaps fewer STDs would be spread under the cover (not to make a pun) of clandestine activity."

    I see what you mean...

    "Prostitution serves a human need. But too often, it makes victims of both prostitutes and their clients. Why is there such a need for it, as well as porn?"

    Again, true. I don't know why the need for it; I wish I had that answer...I see no point in porn (it is vulgar, it is academically pointless, it belittles humans [both men and women], and it smears the whole sexual mystique).

    "Maybe we should all look to ourselves for reasons why we don't have better mental health and more lasting, fulfilling relationships in our respective societies..."

    This is a very good point, Lynda....why indeed?

    "As well a more just and equitable economic system."

    Sometimes I wonder if there will ever exist such a system...for most humans wish not to be equitable and just themselves, so how can a system created by them be?

    Lynda, this was a fantastic comment to wish I thank you a million :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  60. Mel,

    "Sorry it took me so long to comment. I have had a career change, for the better I hope."

    It's ok :)! Congratulations, man :D!!! I am happy for you!

    "It seems that the US, again, is centuries behind when it comes to prostitution. If we legalized it, as you have indicated in Portugal, it would be safer for the clients, safer for the prostitutes (I hate that word), reduce human trafficking, give us increased tax revenue....and everything positive."

    Although it is "legal" in Portugal, taxes are not charged and there are no health inspections done on the sex-traders - which makes no sense at all. Plus, the way it is "legalised" (i.e. it is not illegal by law) it encourages human trafficking and violence towards sex-traders.
    It is a total mess, Mel *nodding*.

    "Nice post. I always look forward to what you will come up with next."

    Thank you, Mel *bowing*! lol...I see...

    Mel, thanks for your awesome input :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  61. LS,

    "(it could not possibly be that you have a hate on for Paul…[...])."

    LOL LOL you do love harsh words *nodding*. "Hate"? I don't hate my foes let alone someone I never met.
    You are so cute, LS...

    "Paul is certainly NOT supporting any such notion that a pastor should not be married…also please note the high respect and faithfulness men are to have for their wives…"

    I would bite this bait...but not today. You (as Paul's fan) know well that he does suggest men not to marry if they can (but you chose to omit that part from your list of quotes - which is cool, it is part of demagogy) despite his other advices (I suppose it was Saul talking then); and the Roman Catholic Church may have chosen to follow that part of his advice, who knows...

    Now, I will silence...

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hey Amel,

    "WOAH...I don't know what to say here...I just feel sorry for some people who are forced to work as prostitutes (either lied at by some people that they'll get a good job abroad whereas they're actually forced to be prostitutes) or those who don't find any other way out for their financial problems."

    I hear you, girl.

    "As to the rest who do it willingly...it's their own choice."

    I agree.

    Amel, thanks a million times for having shared your opinion with us all :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  63. He I'm a stripper in Ireland and its cool. Know loads of lady strippers and they are not hookers.
    All fun.
    www.fullmarty.com

    ReplyDelete
  64. Hi! By all accounts here in Australia, prostitution is riddled with illegal immigrants and men posing as women. Not my cup of tea but they obviously provide a service for males in a hurry to get their rocks off.

    Reading this paragraph way too fast "If governments would legalise prostitution, they would have to circumscribe the sex-traders..."

    I first took "circumsribe" as "circumcise". Talk about men in a hurry!

    Take Care,
    Peter

    ReplyDelete
  65. Hi Peter :D!

    "By all accounts here in Australia, prostitution is riddled with illegal immigrants and men posing as women. Not my cup of tea but they obviously provide a service for males in a hurry to get their rocks off."

    I know what you mean...68% of the prostitutes, that trade in Portugal, are illegal immigrants as well. And we have a few men posing as women.
    "get their rocks off" LOL that is a good expression!

    "I first took "circumsribe" as "circumcise". Talk about men in a hurry!"

    ROFL ROFL....now, that is funny! LOL...*nodding*.

    Pete, thanks a million for your input on this one...as always, I loved it :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  66. Hey Marty :D!

    Welcome to the MAX!!

    "He I'm a stripper in Ireland and its cool. Know loads of lady strippers and they are not hookers. All fun."

    As long as you're having fun, man. Of course not...however, there are some illegal strip clubs that do force their strippers to renders sexual services, which smears the reputation of the business *nodding*.

    I am glad you have fun!

    Marty, thanks for having dropped by and shared your view with us :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  67. Hey Max I will be back later to read this, got to get my beauty sleep lol, but you know I just wanted to say that the girl on the picture must have some momentum going to be in the air like that, lol lol, Anna :)

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anna :D!

    LOL LOL that girl is really strong, that is all I can say LOL...

    Feel free to return whenever you wish, girl: don't worry! :D

    I hope you had a good night sleep :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete

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