Killing: Justifiable?


לֹא תִרְצָח
"You shall not murder"(Exodus 20:13)

Taking a life is one of the harshest acts on earth (not only to the victim but also to the killer itself).
When one unintentionally takes the life of another human being not only it interrupts the existential cycle of that person, but it also brings upon itself the pain, the guilt, the horror of having extinguished the life of a fellow human (in such cases, no karmic consequence is born).
On the other hand when one murders somebody (i.e. killing with intention) not only it viciously annihilates someone, but it also stamps itself with the seal of sin (bearing, thus, serious karmic consequences).

Let’s delve a bit more into this issue…

Pacifists often label soldiers (and thus, Governments) as murderers. I beseech them to reason.
In a war context, there is no murder when soldiers fight against soldiers and, by mistake or direct consequence, civilians are killed. A soldier does not plan to kill others, he does not wake up with an urge to kill people; he’s not even sure if he’ll take somebody’s life that particular day and, most soldiers even pray that innocent people may be spared; even though having been trained to kill and knowing that killing will occur, at some point, during the conflict. This sort of killing is justifiable.

“However, if it [city] does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword.” (Deuteronomy 20:12-13).

Murder: premeditated killing. The murderer awakens craving for blood; he plans when, where and how to viciously kill other humans and prepares himself “spiritually” to carry out his plan. The anticipation of such act gives him the butterflies; the pleasure of seeing flesh being ripped off causes him to bite his lip. He sickles others' life (in accordance with his plan) and reaches an orgasm. From him spurs the seed of evil. The light he bore when born is no longer. He militates against creation, but most importantly, against the Creator. He breaks the commandment...thus, it is unjustifiable.

Another form of planned killing is euthanasia.
Is it murdering or killing? It could be said that it is murdering (since it is carefully planned, premeditated) and it could be said that it is killing (especially if one looks at it as being perpetrated for “altruistic” reasons), depending on the personal beliefs and moral values of each person.
Regardless of what we think of it, euthanasia always affects the ones staying behind: pain, guilt, sorrow (even if mixed with relief); and karmic debt.

Is it justifiable or not? In my personal opinion it is not; for I dare not interfering with God’s plan for his creatures. If, by karmic debt, one must go through (what apparently is an undeserving and) a less dignified path-to-demise; who am I to meddle with its karma (and by consequence, adding up to my own karmic debt)? However, I do acknowledge Free Will and if others wish to bring upon themselves such burden, then it is their choice. It is between them and the Lord.

Share your thoughts: is killing ever justifiable?


For further discussion on this theme, please beam over to LS' realm: Here

Comments

  1. Hello Maximus,

    Excellent article that prompts many questions!

    Do the Biblical texts you quoted apply to all people or just Jews or perhaps just Jews at the time of these writings and not to present day Jews?

    Although Karma (high-cap) is anti-Biblical karma (lower-case) as in natural consequences is clearly evidential in our lives as our actions thoughts words and deeds often have as way of catching up with us.

    Nation states do not have the same rights or responsibilities as individuals. At times nation states would irresponsible in not using force.

    The text from Deuteronomy must be taken within context. Israel was under direct orders from God in this situation so we must be very careful in how we suggest the application of such a text should be for us in present times.

    I would say most murders are red blooded meaning that many of them are not premeditated over an extended period of time but immediate circumstances enflame the passions and the deed is done (thus they are often called crimes of passion). An example may be a wife coming home to find her husband in bed with another woman...with murder ensuing..

    “Militates” against....“the Creator” Hmm sounds familiar! :)

    Euthanasia is murder if it is intentional, has some premeditation and takes an innocent human life even if they are requesting it while suffering. Now I do not believe this includes the withdrawal of “heroic measures” (for example turning off ventilators after use over an extended period with no hope of recovery). This must not be done as an act of vigilantism but with the law always in view. I am a person with a large amount of experience in the area of palliative care and those who are suffering from trauma. These days the health systems of most developed countries are now extremely successful in helping those that are suffering in most cases.

    It seems to me that “karmic debt” is loaded with suffering and is weighted down with a lot of baggage...good thing grace slays karma....

    “It is between them and the Lord” which “Lord”?

    An exhilarating romp my dear!

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  2. I agree with your opinions, especially about euthenasia. The two great commandments have to do with the creating of life, and the taking of life. Thou shalt not commit adultery, and Thou shalt not kill. It is not up to us to determine when our life should end. To me, that is a form of suicide.

    I also agree that in war, when a soldier is obeying his commander, and kills to preserve his own life, or to prevent the taking of other lives, that is justified. But really only God knows the intent of the heart. He will be the only one who can fairly judge the intent of the soldier who killed.

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  3. Max, life is precious in any kind, but there are situations which killing is justifiable as you pointed out.

    I myself wouldn't like to be dependent of a machine in a hospital. I'll ask for someone to pull the plug if it happens.

    If someone's life is threaten by other person, the right of self defence is legal and necessary.

    Killing depends on the point of view and sometimes the only solution we have to deal with.

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  4. Max:

    Again I agree with you on every point. Your life force is affecting me all the way across the ocean.

    Basically, I don't believe in killing. However, I wold kill at a moments notice should certain things come together. Aggression against my family would move me to kill. Aggression towards me would move me to kill to save myself. THose examples are a given and I would be wrong if I denied that I feel that way.

    But what worries me most is a situation where I needed to kill myself in order to save another human being. I believe that is my weakness, for I would not hesitate. But I wonder, finding ourselves in that situation, should we first evaluate the other person's right to life before our own right to live? You don't have time to think, there's a train coming, or an impending accident, or stepping in harms' way--what do we do? Do we establish our priorities up front? If I have a family to support, does that take priority over everything else? Wonder if the person in need of help is a heart surgeon. Does that trump a common worker? Should I die to save the drowning heart surgeon, but ignore the common worker? Is every life the exact same as every other life?

    Please share your wisdom with me and help me to sort out those questions. In a nutshell, if the chips are down, how do we personally decide who lives and who dies?

    Happy trails.

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  5. Max, there was a late term abortion provider who was just murdered in the US. (Note that "just murdered" is quite distinct from the philosophical notion of "just murder"!)

    This brought up a whole lorry full of killing topics. There is the topic of aborting a baby 30 minutes before it would be born naturally. Some think it is justifiable to kill the abortion provider to save thousands of other lives - either directly or indirectly by discouraging abortionists.

    What stood out to me was that the abortionist was killed as he was acting in an official capacity for his local church - as an usher. Should a church use an abortionist as a representative?

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  6. Hi Max,

    We are divided for some of us claim that, other than war (civil and between countries), men should restrain themselves from killing because life belongs to the Maker.
    Others say that killing is a relativity because there are situations where it is perfectly justifiable to put someone to death.

    Killing (people or animals) should never be taken lightly cause once one starts the blood shed, two situations may occur:
    1- get used to it in a way that life becomes irrelevant.
    2- madness caused by a heavy conscience.
    Either way, killing is a conundrum.

    Max, you couldn't be less controversial lol *nodding*.

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  7. Hello LSus :D!

    "Excellent article that prompts many questions!"

    Thank you *bowing*! Let's hear them, then...

    "Do the Biblical texts you quoted apply to all people or just Jews or perhaps just Jews at the time of these writings and not to present day Jews?"

    These quotes apply to all people who believe in God (i.e. everybody, even those who claim not to [because deep down they do]).

    "Although Karma (high-cap) is anti-Biblical karma (lower-case) as in natural consequences is clearly evidential in our lives as our actions thoughts words and deeds often have as way of catching up with us."

    If you know this, why is it so difficult for you to accept in Karma? It is practically the same thing only expanded to a much larger span of existence.
    Life bears mysteries that go beyond the Bible...but I will not bore your with this conversation again *bowing*.

    "Nation states do not have the same rights or responsibilities as individuals. At times nation states would irresponsible in not using force."

    I agree.

    "The text from Deuteronomy must be taken within context. Israel was under direct orders from God in this situation so we must be very careful in how we suggest the application of such a text should be for us in present times."

    Israel is under direct orders from God - even though many do not acknowledge it.

    "I would say most murders are red blooded meaning that many of them are not premeditated over an extended period of time but immediate circumstances enflame the passions and the deed is done (thus they are often called crimes of passion). An example may be a wife coming home to find her husband in bed with another woman...with murder ensuing.."

    That is not murder...that is manslaughter, killing.

    "“Militates” against....“the Creator” Hmm sounds familiar! :)"

    LOL I wanted you to know that I am listening to all you are teaching me, LS *bowing*!

    "Euthanasia is murder if it is intentional, has some premeditation and takes an innocent human life even if they are requesting it while suffering."

    I personally agree with you.

    "Now I do not believe this includes the withdrawal of “heroic measures” (for example turning off ventilators after use over an extended period with no hope of recovery)."

    Sometimes I even think it is a crime to let people plugged in like that for extended periods of time - the soul has no rest.

    "This must not be done as an act of vigilantism but with the law always in view. I am a person with a large amount of experience in the area of palliative care and those who are suffering from trauma. These days the health systems of most developed countries are now extremely successful in helping those that are suffering in most cases."

    *nodding in agreement*...

    "It seems to me that “karmic debt” is loaded with suffering and is weighted down with a lot of baggage...good thing grace slays karma...."

    No, not at all...unless you consider living on earth "suffering and weighted down with a lot of baggage".
    LOL you had to say it LOL...you were itching, I can feel it LOL *nodding*.

    "“It is between them and the Lord” which “Lord”?"

    Which Lord do you think I am referring to?

    "An exhilarating romp my dear!"

    Thank you, LS...

    My friend, thanks a million for your outstanding comment: as always, I loved it :D!

    Cheers

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  8. Hi D!

    :D

    "The two great commandments have to do with the creating of life, and the taking of life. Thou shalt not commit adultery, and Thou shalt not kill. It is not up to us to determine when our life should end. To me, that is a form of suicide."

    Indeed. Euthanasia is a paradox, and very hard to classify: it may be murder for those who assist the patient and it may be suicide (since the patient decides when to its own life should be terminated). Regardless its classification, I find it a form of interfering with God's creation...I do not feel comfortable with it, I admit.

    "I also agree that in war, when a soldier is obeying his commander, and kills to preserve his own life, or to prevent the taking of other lives, that is justified. But really only God knows the intent of the heart. He will be the only one who can fairly judge the intent of the soldier who killed."

    Yes. *nodding in agreement*@ "only God knows the intent of the heart". That is true...for not all soldiers are innocent (and when they're not they shame their uniform and the corps).

    D, thank you so much for sharing your opinion with us: it was a pleasure to hear your thoughts :D!

    Cheers

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  9. Hey Gato Cid :D!

    "I myself wouldn't like to be dependent of a machine in a hospital. I'll ask for someone to pull the plug if it happens."

    If there is no hope, then why keep a person plugged in? Is it for the sake of the one plugged in, or is it for the sake of the loved ones?

    "If someone's life is threaten by other person, the right of self defence is legal and necessary."

    Absolutely.

    "Killing depends on the point of view and sometimes the only solution we have to deal with."

    Good answer.

    Cidão, thank you so much for having shared your thoughts with us: they are most appreciated :D!

    Beijos

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  10. Hi Swu :D!

    "Your life force is affecting me all the way across the ocean."

    That is so generous of you, my friend *bowing*!

    "Basically, I don't believe in killing. However, I wold kill at a moments notice should certain things come together. Aggression against my family would move me to kill. Aggression towards me would move me to kill to save myself. THose examples are a given and I would be wrong if I denied that I feel that way."

    I totally understand what you mean! And it is more than justifiable.

    "But what worries me most is a situation where I needed to kill myself in order to save another human being. I believe that is my weakness, for I would not hesitate. But I wonder, finding ourselves in that situation, should we first evaluate the other person's right to life before our own right to live?"

    Excellent question! I have thought about it a lot, and as a woman I can tell you that I will give my life for my kids if needed be - I won't hesitate. And I have this tendency to give my life for those I love: I don't have to think twice...for I view it as my mission.

    "You don't have time to think, there's a train coming, or an impending accident, or stepping in harms' way--what do we do? Do we establish our priorities up front? If I have a family to support, does that take priority over everything else? Wonder if the person in need of help is a heart surgeon. Does that trump a common worker? Should I die to save the drowning heart surgeon, but ignore the common worker? Is every life the exact same as every other life?"

    No, you don't have time to think...the decision must be pre-made (if you know what I mean). If you have a family to support, and one of your family members is in danger and you decide he/she should die because the others need you...you will not provide for that family ever again, because you will lose your mind with guilt. Now, if it is a stranger the same might happen, but it might not as well - it depends on a lot of things.
    A life is a life regardless of what a person's social status is...but indeed the question is: me or you first? Rather complex question.

    "Please share your wisdom with me and help me to sort out those questions. In a nutshell, if the chips are down, how do we personally decide who lives and who dies?"

    Ah, Swu...I am not sure I can be of help on this one for I, too, have many questions on this issue *nodding*. However, I will say one thing: there is always that voice within that guides us and tells us which one is to live and to die.
    I know this may sound cold, but that is how it works, most of times. The only thing is: after we made the choice to listen to the voice within, we have to be able to live with that choice...know what I mean?

    Swu, awesome comment: thank you so much for sharing your intellect with us :D!

    Cheers

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  11. Hey Looney :D!

    "Max, there was a late term abortion provider who was just murdered in the US. (Note that "just murdered" is quite distinct from the philosophical notion of "just murder"!)"

    Thanks for the link: what a terrible thing to happen. I do not support abortion (let alone abortions performed after the 21st week - what a crime); but I do not condone with this type of action either...if one is pro-life, how can it take the life of another human being? In the day of the day, these murderers are no better than the doctors they kill.

    "This brought up a whole lorry full of killing topics. There is the topic of aborting a baby 30 minutes before it would be born naturally. Some think it is justifiable to kill the abortion provider to save thousands of other lives - either directly or indirectly by discouraging abortionists."

    Killing a baby 30 minutes before it would be born naturally? Immoral.
    No...it is not justifiable. Like I said, they are no different than those doctors...they also take lives; and what is worse is: they do not discourage abortionists.

    "What stood out to me was that the abortionist was killed as he was acting in an official capacity for his local church - as an usher. Should a church use an abortionist as a representative?"

    I was surprised as well. It doesn't seem coherent, does it? I don't think it should; unless that church teaches that abortion is natural (which I would doubt, but we never know).

    Looney, fantastic comment: thank you so so much :D!

    Cheers

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  12. Hi Circulus Ciceronis :D!

    "We are divided for some of us claim that, other than war (civil and between countries), men should restrain themselves from killing because life belongs to the Maker.
    Others say that killing is a relativity because there are situations where it is perfectly justifiable to put someone to death."

    Both arguments are valid. Only, God knows well that humans kill...look at Abel and Cain, and we were only in the beginning then *nodding*

    "Killing (people or animals) should never be taken lightly cause once one starts the blood shed, two situations may occur:
    1- get used to it in a way that life becomes irrelevant.
    2- madness caused by a heavy conscience.
    Either way, killing is a conundrum."

    1- I totally agree. That is what happens with serial-killers: for them, life become irrelevant, dispensable, a game.
    2- Absolutely. Guilt can lead to madness.

    "Max, you couldn't be less controversial lol *nodding*."

    LOL I tried not to be...but apparently I was unsuccessful *nodding*.

    C.C, thank you ever so much for your outstanding comment :D!

    Cheers

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  13. Ciao Max,

    Killing is always justifiable but, within the fact, there will always be somebody that shall never agree, forgive or forget; hence never excusable for it isn't universally understood.

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  14. Max:

    Thank you for you prompt response to my comment. It is a very sticky question you have raised, but one I think people need to think about.

    On the issue of abortion, I have a confession to make. When I was younger I believed it was always the woman's choice. If she wanted to abort, it was her decision alone. Now, however, I have begun to think about other issues. For instance, my birth mother was a young alcoholic who never wanted a child. When I was born she dragged me all around the country, from bar to bar, from sleazy hotel to sleazy hotel, and I was manhandled and abused with no mercy. On occasion, she would leave me with relatives who were dirt poor and hardly had enough food for themselves, let alone another hungry mouth. That is how I came to live with my aunt Mary and uncle Bob. I'm sure you have read about them in my posts. They were also poor and, not perfect by any means, but they saved me from the wrath of hell and helped me to find a my place in the world. I am not complaining. Believe me, I wouldn't trade my life for another. But when I think that good old mom could have just as easily aborted me---I admit it makes me wonder. How do I support a woman's right to her body and her conscience, yet protect those who would not have a life except by the surgeons knife? You know I support women one hundred percent, but at this point of my life, it is an agonizing question.

    Forgive me for ranting. You have touched a cord.

    As always, happy trails.

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  15. Hi Max,

    This post has been linked on SB. I will definitely be back to read and comment.

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  16. Ciao Dux :D!

    "Killing is always justifiable but, within the fact, there will always be somebody that shall never agree, forgive or forget; hence never excusable for it isn't universally understood."

    This is what I call an honest, direct, answer: excellent!
    But I understand where you are coming from: perhaps if a killing is occurring is because it was meant to be, and therefore justifiable...is that it?
    What about when people interrupt the life cycle of other people...is this justifiable? Is severing God's plan ever justifiable? Hmm, I'd say no...never.

    Dux, superb comment :D! Thank you so so much *bowing*!

    Cheers

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  17. Swu,

    "Thank you for you prompt response to my comment. It is a very sticky question you have raised, but one I think people need to think about."

    Don't mention it :). You are right...

    "On the issue of abortion, I have a confession to make. When I was younger I believed it was always the woman's choice. If she wanted to abort, it was her decision alone. Now, however, I have begun to think about other issues."

    Abortion is an issue that makes us think a lot indeed. There is a lot to consider...

    Now, about what you shared with us: thank you for your valor, Swu. You are an amazing human being, despite what you went through you turned out a fine example of what a human should be.
    And I thank your mother, despite everything, for having kept you.

    "That is how I came to live with my aunt Mary and uncle Bob. I'm sure you have read about them in my posts. They were also poor and, not perfect by any means, but they saved me from the wrath of hell and helped me to find a my place in the world."

    Yes, I remember aunt Mary and uncle Bob (your posts about them are some of your best). They were good souls.

    "But when I think that good old mom could have just as easily aborted me---I admit it makes me wonder."

    *nodding in agreement*....

    "How do I support a woman's right to her body and her conscience, yet protect those who would not have a life except by the surgeons knife? You know I support women one hundred percent, but at this point of my life, it is an agonizing question."

    I know, I know...
    Abortion is some sort of murder (if we come to think of it), in a sense that it translates into taking the life of a human being in a premeditated way...and that is why it is so controversial.
    I can support women's right to dignity and to be treated as an equal intellectual being; but I cannot (and will not) support her right to mistreat, disrespect and desecrate her God-given-life-bearer temple.

    But most of all, Swu...the child comes first. I think always of its rights first: right to live, right to grow up, right to be happy, right to study, work etc...

    "Forgive me for ranting. You have touched a cord."

    Forget about it: feel free to rant! :)

    You made me re-think this issue again, and once again I reached the conclusion that I am not being crazy for not supporting abortion. Life is too precious to be severed.
    This is my opinion...when you reach your own conclusion let me know :).

    Thanks, Swu! Happy trails...

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  18. Hi Mel :D!

    "This post has been linked on SB. I will definitely be back to read and comment."

    You are an Angel: thank you!!
    We will be here waiting for you :)!

    See you!

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  19. I don't think I can pull the plug especially if it's someone I truly love. But I also wouldn't want to be stuck in the hospital breathing through a machine and just waiting for my time.

    Two years ago, my husband's family was faced with that decision. My FIL's sister was on life support, they've decided to end her sufferings but nobody wanted to pull the plug. When my FIL finally said, he'd do it, he went to the chapel to pray and just before coming back to the ICU, my aunt-in-law passed away. My FIL was so relieved that he didn't have to do it.

    Glad to hear that you're doing great Max. I am too, but a bit busy preparing my kids' stuff for school. It starts next week. :D

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  20. Hello, Max:

    I jus added your blog in my 2 website.

    Thanks for add mine.
    Greetings

    Rafael.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hi Max,

    Very provocative topic. Is killing ever justifiable? Yes, in self-defense. Sometimes we are faced with the dilemma; kill or be killed.

    I did research on soldiers and one of the things that struck me was that when they go into basic training, the hardest thing is for them to get into the mindset of killing. When they come out, the hardest thing for them to do is get out of the mindset of killing. While it seems to be more natural for some, many find it hard to kill another human being. Suicide bombers notwithstanding, it goes against everything that we are as humans. In training to be a soldier, they learn that killing is the only way they are going to do their job. Though many don't see combat, many do and lose their lives in the process of killing.

    We are not here to kill each other, we are here to love each other.

    "Murder: premeditated killing. The murderer awakens craving for blood; he plans when, where and how to viciously kill other humans and prepares himself “spiritually” to carry out his plan."

    This is deviant behavior and unfortunately it happens too much. I often wonder what happens to make people think that it is okay to kill another person? Are they reacting to something that has happened in this life or a past life? What sets them off to a life of bloodlust?

    "Another form of planned killing is euthanasia."

    That is a difficult one. Does one carry out the last wishes of their loved one and risk prosecution or does one follow the law and let their loved one suffer? Difficult situation and each person has the weigh the pros and cons for themselves.

    We have a doctor over here, Dr. Jack Kevorkian who is also known as the suicide doctor because he has assisted at least 130 patients to that end. He said, "dying is not a crime."

    Between 1999 and 2007, Kevorkian served eight years of a 10-to-25-year prison sentence for second-degree murder. He was released on June 1, 2007, on parole due to good behavior.

    We are often faced with choices in life and we never know if we are making the right ones until we make them.

    Great article my dear and something to think about.

    Profound Cheers!

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  22. Max! Hello!

    Once again you have a knack for writing thought provoking posts.

    Being a participant, on purpose or not, in another human beings death brings many consequences. Premeditated murder is wrong in nearly everyone’s book. The area gets grayer and grayer as you go along.
    Doing something that leads to the death of another, should there be accountability?

    Premeditated or planned death of another is murder.
    Driving a car while drinking and causing an accident that causes death of another is murder.
    Aborting a fetus/baby is murder.
    Providing means to assist another in their own death is murder.
    Leaving something harmful out in the open accessible to others. This something is the source of someone’s death… murder….
    Are there degrees of dead? No, dead is dead.
    All of the above situations have choices.
    A person chooses to plan the death of another.
    A person chooses to get behind a wheel of a vehicle while unable to make sound driving decisions.
    A Dr. decides that killing babies is okay and facilitates the choice of the mother to kill her baby.
    Giving someone the tools to murder themselves is a choice.
    Not properly securing dangerous items (drugs, chemicals, and weapons) is a choice.

    You are accountable for your choices. Each of us were given Free Will.
    With my Free Will, I have chosen not to kill, not to drink and drive, not to kill babies, not to assist a sucide, not to leave dangerous items out for children or others to be able get hurt or hurt others.
    I have chosen not to support people, organizations, businesses that do promote death.
    I would gladly die for my children, spouse or grandchild.
    I would kill for their safety and lives.
    I support the military men and women in their efforts to make our world a safer place.

    In the end we all have choices and free will.
    I am comfortable with my choices.
    You can have your choices inasmuch as they do not endanger my family.

    As I will be accountable ~ so will others.

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  23. Be it murder or manslaughter, both are abhorrent. As for punishment, in the past these morally reprehensible souls would have been put to the sword when eye for an eye was the only form of punishment.

    Even though it still occurs today where capital punishment exists, the most favoured form of punishment is being incarcerated in prison.

    Considering all the circumstances the time spent there can range from very little to spending the full term of their natural lives in some well-appointed establishment with manicured lawns or in some hellhole.

    Now for euthanasia. Is euthanasia murder? A touchy subject indeed! It depends on where you live. A quick look at the net reveals that only a few countries have legalised it with lawmakers elsewhere condemning it.

    In a nutshell I see it this way, we live by the law of the land and must abide by it or else.

    We all hope for a long life and a good death! As for me when the time comes hopefully many moons from now, to be free of discomfort, with my "Living Will" in toe and to be in the company of family are all that I ask.

    Away from euthanasia, is killing ever justifiable? In a word, “Yes”, when it’s deemed lawful or justifiable by the appropriate lawful authority.

    As for our gallant soldiers, they put life and limb on the line in order to protect us from hellbound souls that want to take away our liberty, freedom and our lives be it in the name of religion, world domination, terrorism or whatever.

    These soldiers are to be congratulated and should be given the full support of the people they are trying to protect and serve.

    Take Care,
    Peter

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  24. As usual...what a topic...in some cases it's clearer what to do, whereas in other cases it's really hard to make a decision.

    What about aborting babies that doctors say would be born deformed? I don't know what to think about it...

    Euthanasia? If I think of the worst case scenario involving my loved one, maybe I can even make that decision so just I don't have to see them suffer...

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  25. Hey Liza :D!

    "I don't think I can pull the plug especially if it's someone I truly love. But I also wouldn't want to be stuck in the hospital breathing through a machine and just waiting for my time."

    I can understand that. I wouldn't want it either.

    "Two years ago, my husband's family was faced with that decision. My FIL's sister was on life support, they've decided to end her sufferings but nobody wanted to pull the plug. When my FIL finally said, he'd do it, he went to the chapel to pray and just before coming back to the ICU, my aunt-in-law passed away. My FIL was so relieved that he didn't have to do it."

    *nodding in utter understanding* I can imagine how your FIL must have felt: it is not easy to make such a decision. But God decided to take that burden off his back and take his sister back Home.

    "Glad to hear that you're doing great Max. I am too, but a bit busy preparing my kids' stuff for school. It starts next week. :D"

    Thanks, darling! Oh, school is starting there already? And to think that here it is ending.
    I wish you and your kids a delightful "rentrée" :D!

    Liza, thanks for having shared with us your personal experience: it was enlightening :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  26. Hello Raphael :D!

    Thanks, amigo!

    You are welcome!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi Lady A :D!

    "Very provocative topic. Is killing ever justifiable? Yes, in self-defense. Sometimes we are faced with the dilemma; kill or be killed."

    Thank you *bowing*. So true...it is to "do or die".

    "I did research on soldiers and one of the things that struck me was that when they go into basic training, the hardest thing is for them to get into the mindset of killing. When they come out, the hardest thing for them to do is get out of the mindset of killing."

    Oh yeah, I have read about it as well...it goes to show that our conscience knows well in what we are getting into once we acquire the taste for blood *nodding*. And that is why it is always a hard thing to do...for deep down, the soul knows.

    "While it seems to be more natural for some, many find it hard to kill another human being. Suicide bombers notwithstanding, it goes against everything that we are as humans. In training to be a soldier, they learn that killing is the only way they are going to do their job. Though many don't see combat, many do and lose their lives in the process of killing."

    *nodding in utter agreement*....

    "We are not here to kill each other, we are here to love each other."

    Yes, we are...yet we don't.
    Do you think that, given the human nature (of imperfection), the world will ever be able to evolve to the point where killing will be obliterated? Or is it something that will always be here?

    "This is deviant behavior and unfortunately it happens too much. I often wonder what happens to make people think that it is okay to kill another person? Are they reacting to something that has happened in this life or a past life? What sets them off to a life of bloodlust?"

    They are taken by Evil, girl. Because when Good bathes one's soul there is no way that an individual will find it ok to kill.
    Even if they had some past (in this case, past life) trauma they always have Free Will; they can decide not to act so sub-humanly...they can choose love and life and good. But no...they choose evil, so no Freudian theory can ever justify them.

    "[Euthanasia] That is a difficult one. Does one carry out the last wishes of their loved one and risk prosecution or does one follow the law and let their loved one suffer? Difficult situation and each person has the weigh the pros and cons for themselves."

    This question goes beyond the man-written law and suffering of a loved one.
    I already told my family and friends: do not put me in such position, because I am telling you right now...I will not do it.

    "We have a doctor over here, Dr. Jack Kevorkian who is also known as the suicide doctor because he has assisted at least 130 patients to that end. He said, "dying is not a crime.""

    Dying is not a crime (he's right there), but killing premeditately is (on every level).

    "Between 1999 and 2007, Kevorkian served eight years of a 10-to-25-year prison sentence for second-degree murder. He was released on June 1, 2007, on parole due to good behavior."

    All I can say is: may God take pity on that gentleman.
    I am sure he has fooled himself into thinking that what he does is correct, that is it out of love for humans...

    "We are often faced with choices in life and we never know if we are making the right ones until we make them."

    Like I read in Liara's blog: it is a question of listening to our inner guide. If people start investing more on listening to themselves they will know what is the best thing to do. But even so, whatever the inner voice tells you to perform, that too will bear consequences.
    Living can be quite a conundrum, yet an interesting one.

    "Great article my dear and something to think about."

    Thank you, Lady A *bowing*! :)

    And thanks for your amazing comment: I learned a thing or two here today :D!

    Philosophical Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  28. Hello Christina :D!

    "Once again you have a knack for writing thought provoking posts."

    lol I think I do...you know, a reader (in my Portuguese blog) told me that my blog should be called "Love for Controversy" LOL...

    "Being a participant, on purpose or not, in another human beings death brings many consequences."

    So true.

    "Premeditated murder is wrong in nearly everyone’s book. The area gets grayer and grayer as you go along. Doing something that leads to the death of another, should there be accountability?"

    Yes, it is. In my opinion, there should be accountability, yes.

    "Driving a car while drinking and causing an accident that causes death of another is murder."

    Even if by accident?

    "Aborting a fetus/baby is murder."

    I agree, because it is premeditated.

    "Providing means to assist another in their own death is murder."

    Premeditated, so yes.

    "Leaving something harmful out in the open accessible to others. This something is the source of someone’s death… murder…."

    But is there the intent to kill? If not, then it isn't murder...

    "Are there degrees of dead? No, dead is dead."

    True. But there is intentional and non-intentional killing....

    "You are accountable for your choices. Each of us were given Free Will."

    This is true. But what about self-defence? We have to choose between our own life and that of the attacker...should we choose not to defend ourselves and be killed?

    "I support the military men and women in their efforts to make our world a safer place."

    Amen.

    "As I will be accountable ~ so will others."

    True.

    Christina, thank you ever so much for your input: it was quite interesting...my, my, my :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  29. Hey Peter :D!

    "Be it murder or manslaughter, both are abhorrent. As for punishment, in the past these morally reprehensible souls would have been put to the sword when eye for an eye was the only form of punishment."

    Not if it were manslaughter. In the "eye for an eye" era intention was weighed before being putting to the sword.
    Nevertheless, taking the life of someone is always terrible indeed.

    "Even though it still occurs today where capital punishment exists, the most favoured form of punishment is being incarcerated in prison."

    True. Does capital punishment exist in Australia?

    "Now for euthanasia. Is euthanasia murder? A touchy subject indeed! It depends on where you live. A quick look at the net reveals that only a few countries have legalised it with lawmakers elsewhere condemning it."

    It is a touchy subject. You know, Peter, if we consider that euthanasia is premeditated killing (because it is, even if for avoiding further suffering) then yes, it is murder. However, some may invoke other reasons (even ethics) to justify it...so it depends on the person, really.
    For me, it is murder.

    "In a nutshell I see it this way, we live by the law of the land and must abide by it or else."

    Yeah...

    "We all hope for a long life and a good death! As for me when the time comes hopefully many moons from now, to be free of discomfort, with my "Living Will" in toe and to be in the company of family are all that I ask."

    We do! *knocking on wood*....I wish you a comfortable end, Peter; surrounded by those you love the most :).

    "Away from euthanasia, is killing ever justifiable? In a word, “Yes”, when it’s deemed lawful or justifiable by the appropriate lawful authority."

    Your opinion is noted :D.

    "As for our gallant soldiers, they put life and limb on the line in order to protect us from hellbound souls that want to take away our liberty, freedom and our lives be it in the name of religion, world domination, terrorism or whatever."

    Hear! Hear! I utterly agree with you :D!

    "These soldiers are to be congratulated and should be given the full support of the people they are trying to protect and serve."

    Amén to that!!

    Pete, thank you (once again) for your superb contribution: I loved it!! :D

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hey Amel :D!

    "As usual...what a topic...in some cases it's clearer what to do, whereas in other cases it's really hard to make a decision."

    lol I know. I can understand that.

    "What about aborting babies that doctors say would be born deformed? I don't know what to think about it..."

    Girl, I am against abortion (under any circumstance)...so, I wouldn't know what to tell you really.

    "Euthanasia? If I think of the worst case scenario involving my loved one, maybe I can even make that decision so just I don't have to see them suffer..."

    Ok, your opinion is well noted :D!

    Girl, thank you so so much for sharing your views on this theme: I appreciate it :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  31. Hi Max,

    "...it goes to show that our conscience knows well in what we are getting into once we acquire the taste for blood *nodding*. And that is why it is always a hard thing to do...for deep down, the soul knows."

    Agreed. The soul knows what the soul knows and so(ul) it goes. ;D

    "Do you think that, given the human nature (of imperfection), the world will ever be able to evolve to the point where killing will be obliterated? Or is it something that will always be here?"

    Unfortunately it is something that will always be here. There is nothing we can do about it. It depends on the offense level of a party or an individual. If one is greatly offended at something and is angry enough, one will kill. Recently I had a discussion on this topic with someone and he said, "We have been having peace talks for years, and it hasn't done any good." That doesn't mean that we should we stop trying to achieve peace.

    "Because when Good bathes one's soul there is no way that an individual will find it ok to kill. Even if they had some past (in this case, past life) trauma they always have Free Will; they can decide not to act so sub-humanly...they can choose love and life and good. But no...they choose evil, so no Freudian theory can ever justify them."

    Exactly, it is choice.

    "This question goes beyond the man-written law and suffering of a loved one.
    I already told my family and friends: do not put me in such position, because I am telling you right now...I will not do it."

    At least they know your wishes.

    "Like I read in Liara's blog: it is a question of listening to our inner guide. If people start investing more on listening to themselves they will know what is the best thing to do. But even so, whatever the inner voice tells you to perform, that too will bear consequences.
    Living can be quite a conundrum, yet an interesting one."

    Living is one big experiment.

    Live On Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  32. ah yes Max
    a well written ..thought provoking and naturally sensitive post...
    having seen my dear Father suffer with cancer I do believe in euthanasia....and if I ever found myself in a similar situation I would hope that my family would be supportive and accept my choices...
    I recently watched a Clint Eastwood film called Gran Turino and I think it summed up my feelings on life and death quite well...
    I believe that we need to remain flexible.... ie walk a mile in another's shoes...one never knows..

    ReplyDelete
  33. Lol, geez Max another great post.

    "Is killing ever justifiable?", in a word, yes it is. That is to say if a bunch of qualifying circumstances are involved.

    First, I think most would agree, or maybe not, premeditated murder is wrong, we get into abortion, assisted suicide and Capital Punishment ( I'm personally against all 3) which depending on your religious affiliation one will have very strong opinions,I'm basically against any premeditated murder,Other then that of War, that's more of a self defense thing, self defense can in my opinion be defended and justified in some cases.

    I was watching Battle for Haditha last night. It was back in 2005 when an American soldier was killed and 2 wounded by a roadside bomb in Haditha Iraq, the soldiers in the attacked convoy, believing they were justified, went on a killing spree killing 24 men women and children, hate overtook them and they were not in their right minds, their army training took over, and the tragic event took place. Was this justified as a crime of passion?

    Would any of these men have killed under any other circumstances, had they not been at war, trained to kill by the military, had a friend murdered in front of them, been armed with a machine gun and frags, I don't think so, see it all depends on the circumstances.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Max,
    I have read this post twice....very carefully, looking fore something to say that you did not say, or something to argue with you about. My conclusion is that I absolutely agree with each and every point that you make. I, like you, could never take a life under any circumstance.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Interesting...

    I don't thin k of soldiers as murderers, even though I think most wars are just plain wrong. Now, we send kids to fight and I doubt they will get out of there without any guilt or bad feelings, and that's criminal in my opinion. But soldiers are the weapons, while murderers and those who justify these wars.

    Euthanasia... I think I'm in favor. It's not easy (I can't even imagine how hard it must be!) but when I think of recent high profile cases, I can understand the situation and the choice of ending a life.

    I strongly disagree that abortion is killing, especially when done extremely early in the pregnancy. Once again, very tough decision that certainly has consequences, but when we are talking about an embryo, while I'm not saying it's nothing, I don't think it's a life (yet) either.

    Now, killing a doctor who perform abortion is plain wrong! (see recent news...)

    But no matter in which circumstances, any killing will be on the killer's mind. Sometimes such an act can be explained and understood, but it's not right and will never be.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hi Max,

    In all honesty, I do not agree with very much you have to say but I appreciate your making such a angst-fraught subject available.

    Killing is the same thing as murder, if they are intentional. I can't help but believe that the end result determines the crime.

    Even in the case of a soldier who kills and murders because he was ordered to - he (not the country or empty values he killed for) is to blame for his crimes.

    Haven't you ever noticed that the victor in the war determines what was a crime and what wasn't? Who gets prosecuted and who doesn't - and often times for the same exact crimes.

    Euthanasia is murder. When you assist someone in relieving themselves of the gift of life, you are a murderer. I feel that the gift of life is given, not for yourself, but for what you can offer to others. Regardless of what condition your body is in, you still have something to offer.
    Euthanasia and suicide are the two most selfish actions a person can commit.

    I explored this same subject on my latest blog post, "Do You Support Soldier Bill?".

    I would be very interested in your opinion on it.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Lady A,

    "The soul knows what the soul knows and so(ul) it goes. ;D"

    lol I loved that ;).

    "Unfortunately it is something that will always be here."

    I hear you.

    "There is nothing we can do about it. It depends on the offense level of a party or an individual. If one is greatly offended at something and is angry enough, one will kill."

    True.

    "Recently I had a discussion on this topic with someone and he said, "We have been having peace talks for years, and it hasn't done any good." That doesn't mean that we should we stop trying to achieve peace."

    I agree with you...we must keep pushing to achieve peace.

    "At least they know your wishes."

    They know my thoughts about it.

    "Living is one big experiment."

    Amen!

    Thank You Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  38. Hi Kim :D!

    Welcome!!!

    "a well written ..thought provoking and naturally sensitive post..."

    Thank you *bowing*!

    "having seen my dear Father suffer with cancer I do believe in euthanasia....and if I ever found myself in a similar situation I would hope that my family would be supportive and accept my choices..."

    I understand...

    "I believe that we need to remain flexible.... ie walk a mile in another's shoes...one never knows.."

    "one never knows"....it depends, Kim....it depends....

    Kim, thank you ever so much for sharing your personal views on this subject: I appreciated it :D!
    Please know that you are extremely welcome here, and I hope to see more of you :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  39. Hey Bob :D!

    "Lol, geez Max another great post."

    Thank you, mate *bowing*!

    ""Is killing ever justifiable?", in a word, yes it is. That is to say if a bunch of qualifying circumstances are involved."

    All right...your view is noted :).

    "First, I think most would agree, or maybe not, premeditated murder is wrong, we get into abortion, assisted suicide and Capital Punishment ( I'm personally against all 3) which depending on your religious affiliation one will have very strong opinions,I'm basically against any premeditated murder,Other then that of War, that's more of a self defense thing, self defense can in my opinion be defended and justified in some cases."

    I agree (except for Capital Punishment: I think it should be applicable in vicious crimes).

    "I was watching Battle for Haditha last night. It was back in 2005 when an American soldier was killed and 2 wounded by a roadside bomb in Haditha Iraq, the soldiers in the attacked convoy, believing they were justified, went on a killing spree killing 24 men women and children, hate overtook them and they were not in their right minds, their army training took over, and the tragic event took place. Was this justified as a crime of passion?"

    Oh yes, I remember that event. I didn't agree with what those soldiers did...it was pure murder. No, it cannot be justified as crime of passion, because they premeditated their killing. Besides, they are in a war context...soldiers can (and many will) die, there is no place for vengeance in such contexts. Soldiers are to fight against soldiers (and rebels) not civilians.

    "Would any of these men have killed under any other circumstances, had they not been at war, trained to kill by the military, had a friend murdered in front of them, been armed with a machine gun and frags, I don't think so, see it all depends on the circumstances."

    I will frank with you, Bob...I think they would have killed under any circumstance; the murdering bug slept within. Because an honourable soldier thinks before acting (i.e. he knows that he must fight soldiers and not take vengeance on civilians).
    I wanted to agree with you, I really did...but I don't know...

    Lord of the Astrostuff, thank you ever so much for you incredible comment :D! I loved it!!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hey Mel :D!

    "I have read this post twice....very carefully, looking fore something to say that you did not say, or something to argue with you about. My conclusion is that I absolutely agree with each and every point that you make. I, like you, could never take a life under any circumstance."

    Thank you for having read the post twice, my friend: what an honour *bowing*! Once again, we are on the same page, then... :)

    Thanks for your comment and your delightful presence here :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hey Zhu :D!

    "Interesting..."

    lol oh boy....

    "I don't thin k of soldiers as murderers, even though I think most wars are just plain wrong. Now, we send kids to fight and I doubt they will get out of there without any guilt or bad feelings, and that's criminal in my opinion. But soldiers are the weapons, while murderers and those who justify these wars."

    I get your position. It is true that soldiers come back with scars, but they choose this profession and with choice comes consequence.
    I only have one thing to say in this section: if wars hadn't been fought we wouldn't have the nations we now call ours, would we? There are wars that need (and have) to be fought and it would be irresponsible of governments not to make that kind of decisions.
    I justify some wars, so...according to your theory I am a murderer...I can work with that ;).

    "Euthanasia... I think I'm in favor. It's not easy (I can't even imagine how hard it must be!) but when I think of recent high profile cases, I can understand the situation and the choice of ending a life."

    All right...it is noted.
    It can't be easy indeed.

    "I strongly disagree that abortion is killing, especially when done extremely early in the pregnancy. Once again, very tough decision that certainly has consequences, but when we are talking about an embryo, while I'm not saying it's nothing, I don't think it's a life (yet) either."

    All right....Well, I can't comment on this for you know my position already.

    "Now, killing a doctor who perform abortion is plain wrong! (see recent news...)"

    I agree with you. How can a pro-life take a life? It doesn't make sense. Yeah, I heard the recent news: quite disturbing.

    "But no matter in which circumstances, any killing will be on the killer's mind. Sometimes such an act can be explained and understood, but it's not right and will never be."

    It depends, there are som sick people who feel nothing but pleasure after taking someone's life.
    I may very well be right...cause otherwise why would people feel guilty after killing someone (even if/when justified)?

    Zhu, superlicious comment: I loved it :D!!! Merci beaucoup!!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hello Lynne :D!

    Welcome!!!

    "In all honesty, I do not agree with very much you have to say but I appreciate your making such a angst-fraught subject available."

    It is ok, you don't have to agree with what I think or write... :D.
    I appreciate the fact that you took the time to read my thoughts *bowing*.

    "Killing is the same thing as murder, if they are intentional. I can't help but believe that the end result determines the crime."

    It is a question of intention, indeed - and that is what differs murder from killing.
    I understand what you mean...

    "Even in the case of a soldier who kills and murders because he was ordered to - he (not the country or empty values he killed for) is to blame for his crimes."

    If the soldier acts not intentionally (premeditatedly) then he is not accountable for the orders he carries out.
    In order for you to have a country blood was shed; in order to protect your freedom and security and nation blood will continue to be shed - it is that simple.
    If what a soldier (an honourable one) does is a crime then we have a nationality, freedom and safety based on accrued crimes...is that what you are implying?

    "Haven't you ever noticed that the victor in the war determines what was a crime and what wasn't? Who gets prosecuted and who doesn't - and often times for the same exact crimes."

    No, I haven't...are you saying that if the allies hadn't won the war in 1945 the holocaust wouldn't have been a crime? It would have been a crime despite who was victor or not; however the outcome of that crime would have differed, perhaps...
    Should have the allies sit still while millions of people were being enslaved, tortured and gased in Europe? Was not moral and needed to fight the WWII? Do you call this war a crime?
    Was it not necessary and moral to defend the western world and its freedom from extremist...what the hell....terrorist attacks? Perhaps we should all just obliterate what our ancestors fought for and let others destroy everything we built...come now, Lynne...

    "Euthanasia is murder. When you assist someone in relieving themselves of the gift of life, you are a murderer. I feel that the gift of life is given, not for yourself, but for what you can offer to others. Regardless of what condition your body is in, you still have something to offer.
    Euthanasia and suicide are the two most selfish actions a person can commit."

    Your opinion is well noted - thank you for sharing it.

    "I explored this same subject on my latest blog post, "Do You Support Soldier Bill?". I would be very interested in your opinion on it."

    I will be there soon and share my opinion - thank you for inviting me :D!

    Lynne, thanks a million for having shared your personal views on this delicate issue: I loved it :D!
    Know that you are most welcome to the MAX! *bowing*

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  43. Hey Max! I'm happy to hear you had a great one. :) I wish you a terrific week ahead. *hugs*

    ReplyDelete
  44. Dear Max, this is excellent article, and you know what, I don't think I have answer to this, or let's just say depends in what mood I am, lol. There are days that I could kill someone for all the crimes out there, and there are days I forgive everyone. I flip flap a lot. You know we had one killing in States, I think someone murder late term abortion doctor - having done a bit reading on this topic, I don't feel sorry for him, but then what he cares, he is dead. Insane who murder, oh just lock them up. You know Max I am struggling on this one, I think I have too soft of a heart, I just wish very much there were no killings at all in the world. Max excellent post as always...and thanks for listening my mumble jumble, lol. Anna :)

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hey Liza,

    Thanks, darling :D! Have a great week yourself *hug*!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hey Anna,

    Thank you, my dear!

    I heard about that recent murder in the US, yes: I didn't agree with it, and mind you I am against abortion (under any circumstance), cause the person that killed that doctor proved to be no better than the individual he killed.

    Anna, I am glad you have a softer heart: blessed be you, my friend :D!

    I am here to listen...always :D!

    And thanks a million for your comment: I loved it :D!

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
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